[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[Redlan]

It was disparaging to initially see all the anti-agreement rhetoric, cheap shots and personal attacks. I am glad to see some more level headed discussion instead of the “I can yell the loudest until everyone conforms to my opinion” strategy.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

All 14 councilors give their reasons on why they support the deal:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ing-arena-deal

Encouraging words. It will be interesting to see the full proposal.

[Major Major]

If anyone wants to vomit in their mouths this afternoon, have a listen to Eric Francis on Steinberg today. And I say that as someone who doesn't mind this deal. Woah Nelly what a sycophant.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Major Major

If anyone wants to vomit in their mouths this afternoon, have a listen to Eric Francis on Steinberg today. And I say that as someone who doesn't mind this deal. Woah Nelly what a sycophant.

Eric knows where his bread is buttered.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

The last 3 NHL arenas that were built (T-Mobile, UBS and Climate Pledge) were each privately financed.

While they are bigger markets, I still think we're being fed a bunch of nonsense about how it's impossible for do this without taxpayer dollars.

New York 9X Calgary, Seattle 4X Calgary, Las Vegas is the entertainment capital of North America. So you can't just brush this aside like it doesn't mean anything when it means everything.

Quebec City, Edmonton, and Winnipeg are our comparables.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Muta

I can't wait for all of your taxes to go up.

Our taxes always go up.

At least this time, we get an arena.

[iamca]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

I’m kind of disgusted that a forum of Calgary Flames fans can’t get behind this. This deal will keep the Flames in Calgary for the long term, make us competitive with other Canadian franchises, and breathe new life into a tired downtown core. For the first time in a year, my kids are excited about the future of the Flames.

This thread is a total downer at a very low point in the “hockey” part of the franchise. A new arena anchoring an entertainment district in the heart of your city is something to be excited about. The proof is in the pudding - look at any major new sports development in North America. This will be amazing for the Flames and for Calgary.

Agreed!

The franchise was already taking a decent hit with how dated and decrepit the Dome is, so having a modern event center along with the outdoor practice facility is a huge positive to look forward to seeing and experiencing.

The redevelopment and revitalization of the area adjacent to the event center will be a huge boost for the local community for a long time to come.


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[looooob]

Originally Posted by Major Major

If anyone wants to vomit in their mouths this afternoon, have a listen to Eric Francis on Steinberg today. And I say that as someone who doesn't mind this deal. Woah Nelly what a sycophant.

listened briefly while driving , sort of gave up after he called our current Premier the 'smartest person he knows', which upon further reflection is both fascinating and also as good a summary of our current woes as any I've heard

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Muta

I can't wait for all of your taxes to go up.

What a stupid statement, our taxes go up you gain nothing. And this contribute nothing to the discussion. As Flames fan, we are happy to have a new arena. Some of us might not like the $$ contribute to it but for someone doesn't live in the city to say something like that? What the purpose? Just eff off.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

New York 9X Calgary, Seattle 4X Calgary, Las Vegas is the entertainment capital of North America. So you can't just brush this aside like it doesn't mean anything when it means everything.

Quebec City, Edmonton, and Winnipeg are our comparables.

For comparison, Scotiabank is paying $40mil a year for 20 years for naming rights of the Leafs arena. I'm pretty sure if the Flames had an 800mil naming rights agreement waiting in the wings we would have a new stadium right now. As you suggest market size matters for many things.

Seattle used the arena to get an expansion team and it also trying to get an NBA team back.

Vegas was getting an expansion team and the arena will be full 365 nights a year.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

What a stupid statement, our taxes go up you gain nothing. And this contribute nothing to the discussion. As Flames fan, we are happy to have a new arena. Some of us might not like the $$ contribute to it but for someone doesn't live in the city to say something like that? What the purpose? Just eff off.

I really had to use the green text hey? Must’ve been a long week, have a beer or a joint and relax, you’ll feel better!

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Muta

I really had to use the green text hey? Must’ve been a long week, have a beer or a joint and relax, you’ll feel better!

I'm 15 years sober, thanks.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Our taxes always go up.

At least this time, we get an arena.

No you don't, you will be granted the option to pay (top dollar) to temporarily access the arena

YOU get sweet #### all

Unless the city gets revenue from concerts or at the VERY least from parking this is nothing but corporate welfare

[GeeYYC]

To say it is corporate welfare is simply not correct. Area redevelopment/revitalization is what all cities have to do to keep modern and increase tax generation.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Corporate welfare happens all the time. The amount of tax breaks and benefits given to attract and retain business is something people just aren't aware of, and those numbers can be staggering. You don't get head offices to relocate to your city without throwing them an extremely lucrative bone. My god, if the usual pearl clutchers had been around to see what the CoC did to bring CP Rail to town back in '96 it would have been mayhem. You have to make it worth the interest's while to come here and then keep them happy. That comes through tax breaks and subsidies to get things done, like build infrastructure and lease over-priced office space in the glass towers of the downtown core.

[PepsiFree]

Everyone knows corporate welfare happens all the time, the issue is that this specific instance of corporate welfare is especially silly.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

No you don't, you will be granted the option to pay (top dollar) to temporarily access the arena

YOU get sweet #### all

Unless the city gets revenue from concerts or at the VERY least from parking this is nothing but corporate welfare

Don’t really agree with this line of thinking. If the expectation is one only ‘gets something’ when their dollars goes to an institution or public amenity that is free to use, how do you reconcile that with other aspects of commerce? Is there no enjoyable aspect whatsoever to be taken into account here? Absolutely nothing gained from the redevelopment of Victoria park and the entertainment district this will push forward? Do those potential hotel/multi-family/retail/hospitality developments that will follow not pay taxes as well?

When you purchase an airline ticket to go on a holiday, what tangible good do you receive? Nothing. Actually that’s not fair, you get a bag of pretzels and a nonalcoholic beverage. It’s about the experience of going somewhere enjoyable. What happens when airlines raise ticket prices? Do you write sharply worded letters to WestJet? What about tipping your server when you go out to a restaurant? What about paying for parking? People spend money every day, multiple times some days, that you can question whether there’s a tangible benefit or not. You pay for the experience.

I’ll acknowledge these things aren’t exactly the same but it strikes me as curious people get so bent out of shape about where their tax dollars go, especially when it’s a relative small amount. I think I saw a quick calculation earlier that said this deal effectively means each albertan will pay ~$7.78/year for 35 years. That’s about half the cost of a Bigmac Meal. What do we get for that? The community rink and infrastructure to help support revitalization of Victoria Park.

I attended a real estate conference earlier this year where Dashpreet Bahdi, who is leading the development of the Green Line spoke. Calgary’s population is now over 1.6 million and is forecasted to be 2.5 million in 10 years. This City is on an upward trajectory and, I don’t think I’m alone here, would like nice things to enjoy. I like things like the river walk, peace bridge, central library, east village, and many other things public money has contributed to. These things are necessary for the community. And I’m betting that once this project is complete, most will see this as a benefit to it.

We will get much more than ‘sweet #### all’.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

No you don't, you will be granted the option to pay (top dollar) to temporarily access the arena

YOU get sweet #### all

Unless the city gets revenue from concerts or at the VERY least from parking this is nothing but corporate welfare

Sweet #### all? As a taxpayer I get:

a revitalized lower east village (desperately needed)
a new event centre (desperately needed), catching us up with every other city in NA
more events, concerts, etc here every year (very welcome)
a renewed 35 year contract with the team, to stay here

People talk like the only thing that will happen in the building is Flames games. But the event centre, and the surrounding developed area, will be here the other 250 days a year also, and I am willing to bet that every single (local) person that has said on here that they will never step into it, will have attended something there, within a year or two of it being built (unless they stay away, purely out of spite).

People are very welcome to say that they don't want to spend a nickel going to a game - and that's fine, you do you. You are free to not like the deal, but the crap that gets made up in here is pretty ridiculous.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Everyone knows corporate welfare happens all the time, the issue is that this specific instance of corporate welfare is especially silly.

Is it? Or is this just the one that people are actually aware of, because it is completely public in detail. Lanny_MacDonald is right, this is how things get done. And for the people saying some arenas have been built with no public money, there may be a few in the very largest cities, but otherwise, they almost invariably include tax breaks, free land, promotional rights, and/or other incentives.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by looooob

listened briefly while driving , sort of gave up after he called our current Premier the 'smartest person he knows', which upon further reflection is both fascinating and also as good a summary of our current woes as any I've heard

He’s met Murray Edwards who, despite everything else, is hella smart. I assume he’s met his own mom, and Diane Francis is smarter than Smith.

Hell, my mom is smarter than Smith.