Yes, apparently they were. They thought that because they thought the new additions would help, I'm sure they won't think the Flames do well this year.
And as for looking good on paper, that's why they play thr game we could draw them a picture of the cup and say they're the "on paper champs" and not change the roster.
You can’t be sure of that until the dust settles on the offseason moves.
They played the game very differently last year playing in empty buildings and playing only 6 teams. We simply can’t put too much stock into how this year went at least in my opinion.
Let’s see how next year goes and in my opinion that will dictate if a rebuild is imminent or if this team is improving and competing
If the Flames lose Giordano to the Kraken is there an opportunity to send them Monahan for somebody like Dumba or Bean?
This is a bit of a crazy scenario but I do wonder if Treliving goes down this route to protect Gio?
Seattle selects Bean from Carolina. The Flames then trade Monahan to Seattle for Bean and also with the agreement that they take Kylington instead of Gio in expansion
As much as this core needs a big change, I don't see the value in moving Monahan unless there is a plan to replace him at center with someone else via trade, signing or whatever. I don't think anyone already in the system is ready for those minutes.
This is easily the most exhausting part of these conversations. People arguing the mental makeup and personal motivations of people they’re likely never been within 100 feet of, let alone talked to. Even a professional psychologist would have trouble making that leap.
I don't know any of these guys, what I do know is they haven't done anything team results wise for years, the Flames in the second round is a rare event.
All I'm saying is the talent and scoring seem to be there but whatever intangibles the other teams that succeed have, the Flames don't.
Are the Canadians or Islanders more skilled than the Flames? I don't think so, but the Islanders specifically have had a lot more success.
But maybe I'm wrong and the Flames are super motivated to win, just add a winger/goaltender and this team go places, that's been the approach the last 5 years and it's worked out great.
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I have Strong opinions about things I know very little about.
I don't know any of these guys, what I do know is they haven't done anything team results wise for years, the Flames in the second round is a rare event.
All I'm saying is the talent and scoring seem to be there but whatever intangibles the other teams that succeed have, the Flames don't.
Are the Canadians or Islanders more skilled than the Flames? I don't think so, but the Islanders specifically have had a lot more success.
But maybe I'm wrong and the Flames are super motivated to win, just add a winger/goaltender and this team go places, that's been the approach the last 5 years and it's worked out great.
Well the team finally hired a competent coach last year for the first time under this core. Hartley is a great short term coach and he got more out of this group than any of the other coaches. Gulutzan, Peter’s, and Ward are all amateurs and career assistants who should not have been hired.
I am interested in seeing what this team does in normal circumstances with a full camp/season with Darryl behind the bench.
If the trend continues blow it up but doing it now doesn’t make sense to me
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Well the team finally hired a competent coach last year for the first time under this core. Hartley is a great short term coach and he got more out of this group than any of the other coaches. Gulutzan, Peter’s, and Ward are all amateurs and career assistants who should not have been hired.
I am interested in seeing what this team does in normal circumstances with a full camp/season with Darryl behind the bench.
If the trend continues blow it up but doing it now doesn’t make sense to me
I am also curious to see how this team does under Sutter, but I think you can’t wait with personnel decisions. You need to make a decision which 2 LW you keep going forward, Gaudreau(UFA), Tkachuk (RFA), Mangiapane(RFA). One of them needs to be used to get assets in a trade. I think that the longer you wait trading either Gaudreau/Tkachuk the lower the return would be.
You can’t be sure of that until the dust settles on the offseason moves.
They played the game very differently last year playing in empty buildings and playing only 6 teams. We simply can’t put too much stock into how this year went at least in my opinion.
Let’s see how next year goes and in my opinion that will dictate if a rebuild is imminent or if this team is improving and competing
The problem is every year there is an excuse if you look for it. So they've kept the team in tact and blamed the previous year on something and then did poorly again but there was yet another excuse so guess what, they keep the team together and promise this time will be different. So year after year they get poor results and the assets they have depreciate more and more.
This year will be different, the results won't be but the excuses will be.
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The problem is every year there is an excuse if you look for it. So they've kept the team in tact and blamed the previous year on something and then did poorly again but there was yet another excuse so guess what, they keep the team together and promise this time will be different. So year after year they get poor results and the assets they have depreciate more and more.
This year will be different, the results won't be but the excuses will be.
Well I don’t think the team is kept in tact this year. I was disappointed they didn’t make a big move last summer but I just don’t see how they can quadruple down on this team. I just don’t think stripping it down and tanking is the move right now. It could be the move but I would t make it based off last season.
They have a coach and a goalie so let’s see what moves they make this summer.
I am not opposed to heading down the rebuild path but I don’t think they need to do it without making some changes and seeing how the team does when it gets back to normal.
It’s actually kind of fascinating that on a re-read of the post, there’s literally zero substance or any indication that any of it has actually been based on having seen the player or even read a single stat line.
Like everything is intentionally vague, a platitude, or an unknowable assumption of character, with a little “if you disagree that’s asinine/you’re condemning true superstars!” to sound convincing and cover up a lack of evidenced information.
Super funny.
That's sorta the point I was trying to make earlier. To have such a strong opinion on a player that it seems he's barely watched just seems silly. I can honestly say I've watched nearly every Sabres game since Eichel entered the league and he is a superstar. Like every player he has areas he can improve in, but he also has the ability to take over the game. Very few players can dominate the way he does.
Well I don’t think the team is kept in tact this year. I was disappointed they didn’t make a big move last summer but I just don’t see how they can quadruple down on this team. I just don’t think stripping it down and tanking is the move right now. It could be the move but I would t make it based off last season.
They have a coach and a goalie so let’s see what moves they make this summer.
I am not opposed to heading down the rebuild path but I don’t think they need to do it without making some changes and seeing how the team does when it gets back to normal.
I agree in not making that decision based on last season. I say make it based on the last several seasons. We lack depth and our prospects are thin. Any talk of these big trades also involves losing some of the few parts we have, and we aren't exactly swimming in cap space to be able to plug those holes this year any better than we did last year.
We are trapped in a loop of mediocrity. And then when we get a whiff of success, the front office starts to think we just need those "one or two pieces" to push us over into contender territory. But we are never that close. Sutter is an improvement behind the bench, but he wants to win now, not build up. Tre has run out of time, his decisions are going to be based on winning now, so bad deals that haunt us in 2-3 years probably aren't a concern to him, that's the next GM's problem. And those are the short-sighted decisions that get us in this mess to begin with.
If we don't need a full rebuild, we at least need a proper strategy, and need to stick to it. The team as we have it is not equipped to make it past the first round next year, and if any of the woes continue, may struggle to even be in the playoffs. If we stay the course we just hit another off season where our assets are a year more depreciated (or UFA's), and we are no closer to building a competitor.
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So they have a new coach and a good goalie and there will be fans in the stands...this time will be different for sure.
I don't know why you're being so indignant about it. You could say the same about a rebuild. They've done one recently, it got us to exactly where we are. But oh, it'll be different this time. Rebuilds don't result in playoff success more often than they do. But oh, oh, it'll be different for us. This time, it will be different!
There are teams that have gone from a position like ours to cup contenders without tearing it down, and there are teams that tore it down and later became cup contenders. There's also plenty more teams that haven't in either case.
There's zero reason to have any confidence that your opinion on the right path forward is correct. It might be completely stupid and lead to an extra five years of even worse results with the highs remaining the same. But you want change, I get it, change is exciting. Change is fun. I think we can all agree with that, whether or not huge change is always effective.
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I would absolutely love having Dumba on this team.
Lots of talk in the past (unfortunately in behind an Athletic paywall) that Guerin isn't eager to trade for Monahan so can't see a deal involving Monahan for Dumba.
Lots of talk in the past (unfortunately in behind an Athletic paywall) that Guerin isn't eager to trade for Monahan so can't see a deal involving Monahan for Dumba.
I don't know why you're being so indignant about it. You could say the same about a rebuild. They've done one recently, it got us to exactly where we are. But oh, it'll be different this time. Rebuilds don't result in playoff success more often than they do. But oh, oh, it'll be different for us. This time, it will be different!
There are teams that have gone from a position like ours to cup contenders without tearing it down, and there are teams that tore it down and later became cup contenders. There's also plenty more teams that haven't in either case.
There's zero reason to have any confidence that your opinion on the right path forward is correct. It might be completely stupid and lead to an extra five years of even worse results with the highs remaining the same. But you want change, I get it, change is exciting. Change is fun. I think we can all agree with that, whether or not huge change is always effective.
Alright, how about a claim that we are doing the same thing over and over, and expect different results. I think that this team’s window to win was built around Gio’s current contact. It seems to have closed without much success. I base the window on the contract structure. Every player contract on the Flames, except Andersson and Markstrom expires within 3 years. The deals given to Tkachuk and Mangiapane were bridge deals to keep the window open. Once they’re over and they need to get paid you need to transition to younger cheaper players.
A rebuild is far from a sure thing. This team demonstrated that by trying to accelerate their rebuild, and/or holding on to assets for too long. Fans calling for a rebuild simply don’t see the answers within the organization, and don’t think it can be accomplished via trade. Everyone in this city remembers starting the previous rebuild off the wrong foot, by getting terrible return for Iginla, Regher, Bouwmeester, letting Kipper retire etc. Then completely missing on multiple first round picks.
This time around I have a lot more confidence in the scouting staff. I think you won’t be drafting Klimchuk, Jankowski, Smith, Kenzig etc. in the position they were picked. You won’t be trading multiple picks in search of a stop gap goalie. Anyways, I think that a rebuild is the best choice for this team right now.
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