Russia invades Ukraine

[Fuzz]

What, exactly, is the US doing that entitles them to all this wealth anyway? Why does Ukraine need to give them #### all? If this is going to be a peace deal with Ukraine losing territory to Russia, how is it America is taking a slice? Like, if they were offering to kick Russia the #### out, and take a slice of mineral wealth I'd understand. But they aren't doing anything.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

What, exactly, is the US doing that entitles them to all this wealth anyway? Why does Ukraine need to give them #### all? If this is going to be a peace deal with Ukraine losing territory to Russia, how is it America is taking a slice? Like, if they were offering to kick Russia the #### out, and take a slice of mineral wealth I'd understand. But they aren't doing anything.

Well they’ve given them $180B, mostly spent in the US, so sounds even to me….

[activeStick]

If not for American funding, intelligence and weapons, Ukraine would've fallen long ago, so in that sense there isn't much Ukraine can say no to or demand...

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by activeStick

If not for American funding, intelligence and weapons, Ukraine would've fallen long ago, so in that sense there isn't much Ukraine can say no to or demand...

OK, so they now want to be paid for the half hearted support they offered? Is that how deals usually work? I'm wondering what benefit Ukraine gets today and tomorrow by agreeing to give the US all this? Because if it's just to cover past support, well, Ukraine can tell the US to get bent and go straight to Putin for a deal, or you know, work with Europe who aren't in the pocket of their enemy.

[WideReceiver]

Anyone else think this war could lead to WWIII?

I feel bad for those poor Ukrainians. Met one randomly two years ago and he’s heartbroken. He’s working here and I doubt ever returns.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

OK, so they now want to be paid for the half hearted support they offered? Is that how deals usually work? I'm wondering what benefit Ukraine gets today and tomorrow by agreeing to give the US all this? Because if it's just to cover past support, well, Ukraine can tell the US to get bent and go straight to Putin for a deal, or you know, work with Europe who aren't in the pocket of their enemy.

Hey, I agree with you, and I've been saying since the start that the west will support just enough for Ukraine to not get destroyed completely, but make sure they don't give what's needed to have Ukraine win. I don't think Europe's in any position to do much of anything with their own economies struggling and who knows what happens with their strongest country in Germany with their upcoming election and their far right party gaining momentum.

I guess my point is, it sucks but Ukraine has nobody other than the US right now to turn to.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Yup, and the years it would take to get to those minerals would likely surpass the Trump years likely helping the Ukrainians to make a better deal with a different government. 3D chess

Also there would always be a way to tax company profits who extract the minerals even if they have the rights to mine those minerals without royalties.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Hey, I agree with you, and I've been saying since the start that the west will support just enough for Ukraine to not get destroyed completely, but make sure they don't give what's needed to have Ukraine win. I don't think Europe's in any position to do much of anything with their own economies struggling and who knows what happens with their strongest country in Germany with their upcoming election and their far right party gaining momentum.

I guess my point is, it sucks but Ukraine has nobody other than the US right now to turn to.

There was never a realistic option to give enough to Ukraine to defeat Russia militarily. Personnel was always their biggest weakness and no amount of equipment was ever going to make up that difference. For obvious reasons, boots on the ground from the U.S. and/or NATO wasn't an option.

So yes, the strategy was always to give enough to Ukraine to keep them in it long enough to outlast Russia's economic resilience, domestic stability, or Putin's life, and the looming U.S. election was always a potential deadline.

The biggest lesson from all this is how the economic battle against Russia failed, and there are several reasons, not the least of it is that China, which is undeniably a world power, can make or break it. They basically did the same thing for Russia economically that the West did for Ukraine militarily. Gave just enough to hold them up until the U.S. election.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There was never a realistic option to give enough to Ukraine to defeat Russia militarily. Personnel was always their biggest weakness and no amount of equipment was ever going to make up that difference. For obvious reasons, boots on the ground from the U.S. and/or NATO wasn't an option.

So yes, the strategy was always to give enough to Ukraine to keep them in it long enough to outlast Russia's economic resilience, domestic stability, or Putin's life, and the looming U.S. election was always a potential deadline.

The biggest lesson from all this is how the economic battle against Russia failed, and there are several reasons, not the least of it is that China, which is undeniably a world power, can make or break it. They basically did the same thing for Russia economically that the West did for Ukraine militarily. Gave just enough to hold them up until the U.S. election.

It's too soon to say whether Russia will break economically before the war is over.

The war is not over, no one knows when it will be over, and no one knows how long Russia will last.

[Huntingwhale]

Really great gathering at City Hall today to mark the anniversary of the invasion.

[Fuzz]

With Volodymyr Zelenskyy balking at Donald Trump’s bid for Ukraine’s critical rare earth minerals, the Kremlin is attempting to persuade the United States president that Russia can offer a better deal.


Russian leader Vladimir Putin told state media Monday evening, “We are ready to work with our partners, including the Americans” to access mineral reserves — including in Russian-occupied Ukraine. He also suggested Russia could resume selling aluminum to the U.S., saying Moscow was ready to supply “about 2 million tons to the American market.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/vlad...upied-ukraine/





Hrmm, which superpower gets to profit the most off of Ukraine getting decimated? Shameless ####.

[puffnstuff]

https://www.politico.eu/article/crit...-donald-trump/

The European Union offered its own agreement on "critical materials" to Ukraine on Monday, just as U.S. President Donald Trump claimed Washington was close to inking a deal with Kyiv for the rights to its vast natural resources.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.politico.eu/article/vlad...upied-ukraine/





Hrmm, which superpower gets to profit the most off of Ukraine getting decimated? Shameless ####.

Hmmm, so the US will put tarrifs on Canadian aluminum, which is literally a few hours away on a lard border that can be shipped on trucks, and is already under a free-trade agreement, and instead buy Russian aluminum that needs to be shipped on large cargo ships across the world?

'Murica the smart great

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Hmmm, so the US will put tarrifs on Canadian aluminum, which is literally a few hours away on a lard border that can be shipped on trucks, and is already under a free-trade agreement, and instead buy Russian aluminum that needs to be shipped on large cargo ships across the world?

'Murica the smart great

Sometimes you have to make sacrifices so you can support your allies and not your enemies.

[burn_this_city]

Trump's whole plan is to make a series of obnoxious demands so when Ukraine refuses he can blame them for continuing the war. Their plan to replace Zelenskyy has failed because it was so transparent it was easily countered by the offer to trade NATO membership for resignation.

[CroFlames]

We knew this would happen the minute the election was won, but holy #### seeing the US/Trump stab Ukraine in the back has been insane to watch.

[Puppet Guy]

I guess mom was right - you CAN judge people by the company they keep:

The US has twice sided with Russia in votes at the United Nations to mark the third anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, highlighting the Trump administration's change of stance on the war.

First, the US opposed a European-drafted resolution condemning Moscow's actions and supporting Ukraine's territorial integrity - voting the same way as Russia and countries including North Korea and Belarus at the UN General Assembly (UNGA) in New York.

Then the US drafted and voted for a resolution at the UN Security Council which called for an end to the conflict, but contained no criticism of Russia.

The Security Council passed the resolution, but two key US allies, the UK and France, abstained after their attempts to amend the wording were vetoed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7435pnle0go

[CroFlames]

Israel also voted against the resolution.

[SutterBrother]

You have to view all the actions of the Trump administration through the lens that he's a Russian asset.

Nothing that is said or done to try to appease the US will prevent Russia from eventually taking what they want from Ukraine.

The Ukraine may even sign away these mineral rights. Which will immediately be handed to Russia to exploit.

Trump works for Russia. That's it, that's all. He has for a long time now.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Israel also voted against the resolution.

Of course they did!

They are fighting a holy war on 3 fronts. They have a US president who hates Muslims who will help them do that. He's now in full control of the military industrial complex, unlike last term.

Israel can fully commit to a final solution to their Palestinian problem as long as they support Trump's goals.