'So I will just say that I think it shows that the Trump administration basically doesn't really understand what's going on. So even though they think they have a plan for how to bring an end to the war in Ukraine, they don't actually have a plan because they don't really know what they're talking about.'
'The point we've come to now is that Trump is going to try implementing those things that won't work. The process over the coming months is probably going to be messy, but what it will lead to is the realization that it doesn't work. And that's when the actually interesting developments will start happening because that's when we will learn what Trump will actually do and what the real Ukraine policy will be for the new administration in the White House.'
This is where I'm at too. People are dooming and glooming way too soon, nothing has actually happened yet, and it's extremely unclear whether anything will actually come out of these negotiations attempts.
Last edited by Itse; 02-15-2025 at 04:31 AM.
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They are acting like it. You're assuming their plan is something that's good for Ukraine and not just the US and Russia.
That's not the plan. These people aren't incompetent, they're ####ing dickheads.
I have no such assumptions, LOL.
If you look at all the things they've said, it's obvious these people are barely talking to each other, and have no plan as to what they think the future should actually be.
Should Europe be more involved or less involved? Depends on the day. Are they making a deal with Ukraine or Russia? Depends on the day, but the plans for the deals, what little we know of them, look to be incompatible. Are they cutting support from Ukraine, or using their support for Ukraine as leverage against Ukraine, or using their support as leverage against Russia, or do they want to move the load of supporting Ukraine even more to Europe? (Who are already collectively a more important supporter than the US, which I seriously doubt Trump even knows.)
Are they trying to push Europe to support Ukraine more, or trying to push Ukraine to accept a deal? I doubt they know themselves.
Last edited by Itse; 02-15-2025 at 12:51 PM.
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They are acting like it. You're assuming their plan is something that's good for Ukraine and not just the US and Russia.
That's not the plan. These people aren't incompetent, they're ####ing dickheads.
It would not surprise me if the “plan” is a vague idea of dividing the world up between the US, Russia, and China and plundering everything in between.
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It would not surprise me if the “plan” is a vague idea of dividing the world up between the US, Russia, and China and plundering everything in between.
Why is Russia getting anything in this divide up the world plan. If I’m China I want Russian subservience. Russia has no bargaining position and isn’t a super power any more.
If the US is working in self interest it would take the resource rich areas of Ukraine for itself, put troops in the Ukraine and draw a new boarder between China and the US dividing the new order. If Russia says no you crank up the support.
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China is probably happy to have Russia busy with Europe. Keeps their focus in that direction, and buying stuff from China to rebuild, and gets dirt cheap energy to boot.
Why is Russia getting anything in this divide up the world plan. If I’m China I want Russian subservience. Russia has no bargaining position and isn’t a super power any more.
If the US is working in self interest it would take the resource rich areas of Ukraine for itself, put troops in the Ukraine and draw a new boarder between China and the US dividing the new order. If Russia says no you crank up the support.
I agree they don’t deserve a piece, but they have nukes, a wily leader, and Trump seems to think they are relevant.
One thing that really bugs me that seemingly no one is really talking about:
Even if we accept that you negotiate with your enemies and Trump like Putin and all that, the stuff the Trump administration just highlights how incredibly incompetent and outright stupid and clueless these people are...
The single biggest thing about this whole invasion for Russia, the absolute biggest thing on the negotiation table from their perspective is Ukraine's ability to join western alliances. Russia wants Ukraine to be submissive to it longterm, that was the ultimate stated goal of the invasion and that has never really changed.
Even if you are willing to negotiate on that, which Trump obviously is, YOU DON'T GIVE AWAY THE BIGGEST ITEM ON THE TABLE FOR NOTHING BEFORE YOU EVEN START! HOW F#%&ING DUMB DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO OPEN WITH THAT?!?
It really pains me to watch just how hard the mainstream media is either sucking Trumps wiener or utterly incapable of really doing even the basic reporting on what's going on.
Trump is showing exactly why he's the kind of guy who can bankrupt a casino, just like Musk has been showing exactly how bad he is at understanding how anything computer related actually works. These guys have completely revealed themselves to be dumb overgrown children taking turns at playing dictator.
This stuff is a major reason why it's obvious to me Trump has no idea what he's doing. He likes the attention and he wants to show he can do stuff no one else can, but he has no plan to get a win out of the deal, which is the one thing he's thinks he's good at.
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Why is Russia getting anything in this divide up the world plan. If I’m China I want Russian subservience. Russia has no bargaining position and isn’t a super power any more.
If the US is working in self interest it would take the resource rich areas of Ukraine for itself, put troops in the Ukraine and draw a new boarder between China and the US dividing the new order. If Russia says no you crank up the support.
The problem is they aren’t operating in self interest. The commander and chief is compromised and Putin has the reins.
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Russia is ineffective against undermanned and under armed Ukraine. They can’t take on a Europe force. Get in there, make a deal for minerals, and drop troops. Tell Trump to pound sand.
If Europe wants this, get at it. Why let the US run amok?
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