2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I have a hard time seeing that. I could not imagine such a horrible trade where the Flames come out of a Tkachuk deal with one of those Coyotes as the centerpiece. Not a fan of any of those players for Gaudreau either but for Monahan I can see it.

Garland instantly makes this team better than with Monahan on it. The only problem with him is the size and weight average of the team decreases significantly. Would only be comfortable grabbing Garland if Gaudreau or Mangiapane were out the door (selling high on either). Garland is a play driver, a pretty dang good player, especially when factoring in who he works with in Arizona. Should be interesting to see how the Coyotes are offensively with a new coach.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Garland instantly makes this team better than with Monahan on it...

My god, people have gotten ridiculous. Conor Garland is already 25-years-old, and just scored a career-high 39 points.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Garland instantly makes this team better than with Monahan on it.

Depends entirely on which Monny we get next year.

Garland was better than Monny last year.

I doubt that Calgary will assume that is the case going forward without giving Monny a chance to rehab.


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[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

My god, people have gotten ridiculous. Conor Garland is already 25-years-old, and just scored a career-high 39 points.

In 49 games.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

My god, people have gotten ridiculous. Conor Garland is already 25-years-old, and just scored a career-high 39 points.

Put Monahan on Arizona and see if he can put up the same production. Garland is a puck hound, plays a two way game, and drives the play. I’ll fight Garland > Monahan to the grave.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

My god, people have gotten ridiculous. Conor Garland is already 25-years-old, and just scored a career-high 39 points.

Don't disagree that I think saying Garland is clearly better than Monahan is a bit hyperbolic (although he is on the better trajectory), but man do I hate the "he's never had more than 39 points" argument.

It's not his fault the last two seasons were both shortened.

He's been an NHLer for three seasons now and his production has been:

18-19: 18 points in 47 games (31 points per 82 games)
19-20: 39 points in 68 games (47 points per 82 games)
20-21: 39 points in 49 games (65 points per 82 games)

That's the exact type of progression you'd want to see from a young player. And the positive would be if you can get a GM that thinks "he's never broke 39 points" and get a good deal on him, when in reality he produced at 65 point pace last season.

Personally I have no issue if this team adds a RH RW version of Andrew Mangiapane, which is what Garland kind of is.

[dammage79]

Yup, Monahan is as worthless as a penny. CP poster love must be just lathered in his own man mayo now.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yup, Monahan is as worthless as a penny. CP poster love must be just lathered in his own man mayo now.

What is the point of your comment? Does it add anything to the discussion?


You're saying people are undervaluing Monahan, that's fair. How about you actually give your evaluation of his value instead? Just as an exercise, if the Flames were trading for a player like Monahan what players would you want to give up?



I think every team in the league knows that the Flames need to make some changes this off season. I also think that trading Monahan seems like the safest option for Flames' fans. That's because the line of Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk seemed rather effective together. You also had a decent pairing of Mangiapane - Backlund that seemed to work. Monahan comes with a lot of risk, and I don't see him as being very coveted this off season. That probably means that the Flames will keep him in the hope he rebounds.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I have a hard time seeing that. I could not imagine such a horrible trade where the Flames come out of a Tkachuk deal with one of those Coyotes as the centerpiece. Not a fan of any of those players for Gaudreau either but for Monahan I can see it.

It was clearly conceptual, I'm not suggesting MT's value is the same as the others.

The point is that our likely trade assets are limited term. We aren't getting back useful younger players like Konecny or Beauvillier or Kapanen directly. Contending teams will give up futures and bad AAVs (which I'd be fine with pursuing, but I'm just being realistic about the win-now mandate here).

We need to find more Lindholm's. 24ish yo's who are established, but with lots of room to grow (and years of control). ARI has several that fit that bill. Maybe Vrana or Larkin (much more expensive, but he could be flipped again when the re-tool fails)

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Mikael Backlund is not overpaid.

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I agree. He's fair 'UFA' value (which tends to mean slightly overpaid)

[stemit14]

I have an alternative proposal for a trade for Fillip Forsberg centered around Monahan and picks.

To Calgary: Forsberg
To Nashville: monahan + conditional 2nd round pick.

Conditions of pick: if monahan scores more than 50 points in 2021-2022, it remains a 2nd round pick. If he scores less than 50 points and Forsberg scores more than 60 points, it becomes two second round picks. If neither of them score more than 50 points, it becomes a 3rd round pick.

Complicated, I know. But it takes a little risk out of the trade for both teams and it makes the salary work. Plus we’ve seen Treliving do complicated conditions on trades before (lucic/Neil trade).

If monahan is finally healthy and has a bounce-back year, it could be a great pickup for Nashville especially if they need a center once duchene is taken by the kraken (which is rumoured at the moment). Forsberg is unhappy with the moves the team has made so he may want out.

What are everyone’s thoughts? Am I way off? Too much? Too little? Too complicated? It’s a hockey trade at its core and I think it would count as a way to mix up the core of the team (along with possibly losing giordano). Plus it gives the flames another right-handed shot in the top six… something it could definitely use.


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[dissentowner]

The more I look at our situation the more I think at most the only core guy that moves is Gio via expansion draft and even that I have my doubts. Tkachuk isn't going anywhere. Gaudreau is going to be re-signed imo. Monahan needs to rebound to have proper value in a trade or we are just selling him for pennies on the dollar. Lindy is not going anywhere. Mangi is not going anywhere. I can't see Backlund moving. I will be shocked if anything actually changes this offseason core wise.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I have an alternative proposal for a trade for Fillip Forsberg centered around Monahan and picks.

To Calgary: Forsberg
To Nashville: monahan + conditional 2nd round pick.

Conditions of pick: if monahan scores more than 50 points in 2021-2022, it remains a 2nd round pick. If he scores less than 50 points and Forsberg scores more than 60 points, it becomes two second round picks. If neither of them score more than 50 points, it becomes a 3rd round pick.

Complicated, I know. But it takes a little risk out of the trade for both teams and it makes the salary work. Plus we’ve seen Treliving do complicated conditions on trades before (lucic/Neil trade).

If monahan is finally healthy and has a bounce-back year, it could be a great pickup for Nashville especially if they need a center once duchene is taken by the kraken (which is rumoured at the moment). Forsberg is unhappy with the moves the team has made so he may want out.

What are everyone’s thoughts? Am I way off? Too much? Too little? Too complicated? It’s a hockey trade at its core and I think it would count as a way to mix up the core of the team (along with possibly losing giordano). Plus if gives the flames another right-handed shot in the top six… something it could definitely use.


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I doubt Monny gets traded ( especially for a player with more value), unless he has proven himself healthy.

Plus, who would be setting up Monny in Nashville?


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[stemit14]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I doubt Monny gets traded ( especially for a player with more value), unless he has proven himself healthy.

Plus, who would be setting up Monny in Nashville?


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My thought is that the conditions help mitigate the performance/injury risk for Monahan. If he still struggles, there is a good chance Nashville could end up with 2 2nd round picks from trading a player that is becoming publicly frustrated with management. Plus monahan could still return value to them if he ends up becoming a 40 point center for the next two seasons as they could trade him at the 2023 deadline for a 2nd/3rd round pick.

Teams are valuing cap space over the next couple seasons so lots of trades require sending salary back. While monahan has struggled over the last two years, his contract is not the worst that a team could try to send Nashville this season to make salary work.


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[Vinny01]

There are only 5 players who have been on this team for the last 5 years with Brodie and Bennett moving on.

Giordano, Backlund, Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk.

I feel like we see 2-3 of those guys gone this year.

Gio only goes if Seattle selects him which I put at 60% (20% chance they don’t want him and 20% chance the Flames make a deal to protect him).

I think we will know Gaudreau’s fate by the end of the month as he either signs long term or is traded. I am putting it at roughly 50%

It seems like the team has been trying to move Monahan. His name has been discussed the most on the FAN and has been brought up by Dreger and other insiders. I don’t see this deal going down if Monahan’s value is as low as some think. I think he is a 50% chance of being moved

Tkachuk I don’t think goes anywhere unless he has asked out. It makes sense for him to aim for a big bounce back season where he can get paid here or elsewhere. I think he will thrive playing in front of fans again and could be in line for the Captains spot in a years time. I think there is a slight chance we see a Tkachuk-Eichel blockbuster. I put the chance of him being traded at 15%

Backlund I think is valued by the organization and I feel like he has the potential to be a career Flame. I think there is a 10% chance he is sacrificed to Seattle to protect Gio and I think there is a 5% chance he is traded in a random deal so 85%’chance he is a flame next year.

I do think we see anywhere from 2-3 of them move this offseason

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

There are only 5 players who have been on this team for the last 5 years with Brodie and Bennett moving on.

Giordano, Backlund, Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk.

I feel like we see 2-3 of those guys gone this year.

Gio only goes if Seattle selects him which I put at 60% (20% chance they don’t want him and 20% chance the Flames make a deal to protect him).

I think we will know Gaudreau’s fate by the end of the month as he either signs long term or is traded. I am putting it at roughly 50%

It seems like the team has been trying to move Monahan. His name has been discussed the most on the FAN and has been brought up by Dreger and other insiders. I don’t see this deal going down if Monahan’s value is as low as some think. I think he is a 50% chance of being moved

Tkachuk I don’t think goes anywhere unless he has asked out. It makes sense for him to aim for a big bounce back season where he can get paid here or elsewhere. I think he will thrive playing in front of fans again and could be in line for the Captains spot in a years time. I think there is a slight chance we see a Tkachuk-Eichel blockbuster. I put the chance of him being traded at 15%

Backlund I think is valued by the organization and I feel like he has the potential to be a career Flame. I think there is a 10% chance he is sacrificed to Seattle to protect Gio and I think there is a 5% chance he is traded in a random deal so 85%’chance he is a flame next year.

I do think we see anywhere from 2-3 of them move this offseason

I agree with you. My predictions are:

- monahan traded at the draft for a top 6 RW and a swap of 1st round picks so the flames move up.

- Gio goes to seattle.

- gaudreau signs an extension.

- Dube gets moved for draft picks.

- Tkachuk doesn’t get moved.

- Ryan signs elsewhere.

- flames sign a veteran backup goalie for Markstrom

- flames make a splash in the free agent pool with Gio’s money for a top 4 defensemen and re-sign Stone.

- flames give a shot to pelletier on the main roster.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I agree with you. My predictions are:

- monahan traded at the draft for a top 6 RW and a swap of 1st round picks so the flames move up.

- Gio goes to seattle.

- gaudreau signs an extension.

- Dube gets moved for draft picks. Kind of out of left field. You're not getting better than Dube in what you could get in draft capital.

- Tkachuk doesn’t get moved.

- Ryan signs elsewhere.

- flames sign a veteran backup goalie for Markstrom

- flames make a splash in the free agent pool with Gio’s money for a top 4 defensemen and re-sign Stone. With Kinvall, Mackie, Kylington chomping at the bit, I hope that they re-sign Stone as insurance and otherwise go with a youth movement. Hanifin and Andersson should be considered vets by now.

- flames give a shot to pelletier on the main roster.

Otherwise I think that you're thoughts are a pretty likely scenario.

[memphusk]

Stone at minimum is a good deal.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Otherwise I think that you're thoughts are a pretty likely scenario.

I think Dube gets moved because he isn’t a sutter favorite and stone gets re-signed because he is. Gut feel on both.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I think Dube gets moved because he isn’t a sutter favorite and stone gets re-signed because he is. Gut feel on both.

I think Sutter believes Dube is capable of much more. I believe he remains a Flame and takes a major step foreward.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I think Dube gets moved because he isn’t a sutter favorite and stone gets re-signed because he is. Gut feel on both.

That’s a little presumptive. Dube is a young player with room to grow. I’m sure Sutter would rather work with a player like Dube, rather than lose him for picks. Is Valimaki also a player who isn’t a Sutter favourite? He was scratched a few times. What about Tkachuk? He had his ice time cut.

I think there was some tough messages sent last year since Sutter took over the bench. This offseason will be important for a few guys, I’m sure.