2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Paulie Walnuts]

Trading Kadri isn't a option unless it's Colorado

We just have to hope a summer to reflect and a new environment will get him on the same page as the rest of his team and maybe he finds his heart again and plays that mean competitive game that made him the player he is.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Webber and Subban were both still good players when they were dealt and had value. We saw last summer when Kadri was a free agent there was very little to no interest in teams signing him for the deal he got here.

I can't see a team that is going to want to pay 6m for a 33 year old Markstrom coming off the season he just had. Maybe last summer when he was coming off a great season but even then 6m for a 30+ goalie is a tough sell to any team.

I've been saying the same thing about Markstrom for awhile now. A year and a half he hasn't been good, and after getting shelled in the worst way last playoffs, his confidence is put to bed. Sure some can point to Sutter (and perhaps he contributed through his gruff manner), but there's no way the guy recovers to be even above average. That's a hope and dream but it's just not happening at this stage. If some sucker wants to take him on, good. But I think they have to find a way of getting something for him without taking on salary, and sign a flyer stop-gap until Wolf is ready.


Back to Markstrom again, I'm still shocked at so-called "experts" citing his Vezina calibre potential. When you take such a hard fall from grace, and you're older, there isn't a chance he lives up to their expectations.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Webber and Subban were both still good players when they were dealt and had value. We saw last summer when Kadri was a free agent there was very little to no interest in teams signing him for the deal he got here.

I don’t think this is accurate. IIRC Columbus and Islanders had significant interest and probably had offers on the table. I also recall hearing that Columbus had their offer on the table day 1 of free agency and it was for more than what Kadri ended up getting from the Flames. There was also plenty of talk about the Avalanche wanting to keep him if they could find a way to do it. And those are only the ones that were discussed publicly, that I’m aware of. I’m sure Kadri had interest from other teams we don’t know about. He was the top C on the market, if I’m not mistaken.

Bear in mind the way some posters here talk about Kadri today is awfully similar to how a lot of people used to talk about James Neal. I doubt very much Kadri is ‘immovable’. Kadri is one season removed from playing a pivotal role on a cup winning team. This past season was a disappointment for many reasons and Kadri’s performance points to a lot of things outside his control. He looked pretty damn good to start the year with Mangiapanne and Dube before Sutter lost his marbles. Fairly sure other hockey execs around the league would be able to see that. Kadri is still a very good player.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I don’t think this is accurate. IIRC Columbus and Islanders had significant interest and probably had offers on the table. I also recall hearing that Columbus had their offer on the table day 1 of free agency and it was for more than what Kadri ended up getting from the Flames. There was also plenty of talk about the Avalanche wanting to keep him if they could find a way to do it. And those are only the ones that were discussed publicly, that I’m aware of. I’m sure Kadri had interest from other teams we don’t know about. He was the top C on the market, if I’m not mistaken.

Bear in mind the way some posters here talk about Kadri today is awfully similar to how a lot of people used to talk about James Neal. I doubt very much Kadri is ‘immovable’. Kadri is one season removed from playing a pivotal role on a cup winning team. This past season was a disappointment for many reasons and Kadri’s performance points to a lot of things outside his control. He looked pretty damn good to start the year with Mangiapanne and Dube before Sutter lost his marbles. Fairly sure other hockey execs around the league would be able to see that. Kadri is still a very good player.

I have a hard time believing that Kadri had similar offers from NYI and left it on the table to wait and sign for Calgary. Columbus is possible that he would want to avoid them but even still that is two maybe teams, which shows how few options we would even have if we were moving him on.

I said teams would certainly be interested in him but how many teams could bring in anyone at 7 million for 6 years, let alone a guy that has maybe one season where he has played at that level? That is the issue Colorado for example can have interest in him but in no way can afford him. We are cutting out a ton of teams from trading for him right off the bat because they can't afford him. Then we are left with teams that can afford him but have no interest and the potential teams is pretty small if not zero. And I am not sure we can eat salary to make that deal much more acceptable for teams to take on.

There are few, maybe zero, successful teams paying players like Kadri 7 million a year, it just isn't a successful way to build a team. The way to win is to have Kadri on his Colorado deal, then let him go when it is time to overpay like we did.

[Vinny01]

I think Kadri is likely to rebound as he was just gassed by the end of the season and was likely straight fed up with Sutter. He came back early from an injury to play in the Cup finals and then it was long into the summer before he got a deal done and settled. He started off strong but faded big time down the stretch. A long summer and fresh start next year is a good thing.

If there was a desire from either party to move on I do think the Avs may have interest but the Flames would need to retain upwards of $2M on the cap hit. You can wonder about the Islanders and if Lou still has interest. Pageau could be an option he has 3 years at $5M per left. They may also consider flipping Horvat before his 8.5x8 kicks in. He only played at a 44pt pace and had 2pts in 6 games in the playoffs. Buyers remorse and Lou gets the guy he wanted in the summer instead?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I have a hard time believing that Kadri had similar offers from NYI and left it on the table to wait and sign for Calgary. Columbus is possible that he would want to avoid them but even still that is two maybe teams, which shows how few options we would even have if we were moving him on.

I said teams would certainly be interested in him but how many teams could bring in anyone at 7 million for 6 years, let alone a guy that has maybe one season where he has played at that level? That is the issue Colorado for example can have interest in him but in no way can afford him. We are cutting out a ton of teams from trading for him right off the bat because they can't afford him. Then we are left with teams that can afford him but have no interest and the potential teams is pretty small if not zero. And I am not sure we can eat salary to make that deal much more acceptable for teams to take on.

There are few, maybe zero, successful teams paying players like Kadri 7 million a year, it just isn't a successful way to build a team. The way to win is to have Kadri on his Colorado deal, then let him go when it is time to overpay like we did.

If there were no other teams interested, then why did the Flames give him 7x$7M? Either they were negligent or just plain stupid. I don’t think either is accurate. It makes no sense. If the case was the Flames were the only team willing to give Kadri a deal then neither the term or dollars make any sense whatsoever. Say what you will about the Flames but they are not stupid.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If there were no other teams interested, then why did the Flames give him 7x$7M? Either they were negligent or just plain stupid. I don’t think either is accurate. It makes no sense. If the case was the Flames were the only team willing to give Kadri a deal then neither the term or dollars make any sense whatsoever. Say what you will about the Flames but they are not stupid.

I think they gave him that money and term to get him to come to Calgary. I said there were not other teams interested in that money and term. I have repeatedly said teams would be interested in Kadri but not interested in his deal.

I think Calgary was stupid to give him that deal and that they have shown they are, if not stupid, somewhat reckless in giving out big free agents deals to older players they shouldn't- Neal, Coleman, Brouwer.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think Kadri is likely to rebound as he was just gassed by the end of the season and was likely straight fed up with Sutter. He came back early from an injury to play in the Cup finals and then it was long into the summer before he got a deal done and settled. He started off strong but faded big time down the stretch. A long summer and fresh start next year is a good thing.

If there was a desire from either party to move on I do think the Avs may have interest but the Flames would need to retain upwards of $2M on the cap hit. You can wonder about the Islanders and if Lou still has interest. Pageau could be an option he has 3 years at $5M per left. They may also consider flipping Horvat before his 8.5x8 kicks in. He only played at a 44pt pace and had 2pts in 6 games in the playoffs. Buyers remorse and Lou gets the guy he wanted in the summer instead?

Rebound to what?

his season last year is what he has done over the vast majority of career. Thinking he will rebound to a massive career season he has in a perfect situation in Colorado seems very unlikely.

I think the mistake is thinking that Kadri had a down year last season and will get to the one off season he had in Colorado and not realizing that last season is the player that Kadri has been for his career and will continue to be in his mid-late 30's.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I think they gave him that money and term to get him to come to Calgary. I said there were not other teams interested in that money and term. I have repeatedly said teams would be interested in Kadri but not interested in his deal.

I think Calgary was stupid to give him that deal and that they have shown they are, if not stupid, somewhat reckless in giving out big free agents deals to older players they shouldn't- Neal, Coleman, Brouwer.

Kadri himself said he could have taken more to go elsewhere. Could have been lip service. Regardless, I find it hard to believe the outbid other teams by a significant margin in terms or dollars.

Edit: easy to point out the UFA signings that haven’t panned out. The Flames seem to think that is a way to build a team and aren’t shy to do so. On the flip side of the coin they have had success here too, one could argue. Frolik, Tanev, Gudbransson, Engellend (I’d argue) were worthy signings. Far too soon to label Kadri a bust. Same goes for Coleman and Markstrom.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Rebound to what?

his season last year is what he has done over the vast majority of career. Thinking he will rebound to a massive career season he has in a perfect situation in Colorado seems very unlikely.

I think the mistake is thinking that Kadri had a down year last season and will get to the one off season he had in Colorado and not realizing that last season is the player that Kadri has been for his career and will continue to be in his mid-late 30's.

Yeah, offensively he was fine and should have met most people's expectations. Other parts of his game fell below expectations, but it total, I don't think his season was as disappointing as some people are saying.

I still think it would be difficult to trade him for much of a return, but I don't think it would be impossible without having to add draft picks.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah, offensively he was fine and should have met most people's expectations. Other parts of his game fell below expectations, but it total, I don't think his season was as disappointing as some people are saying.

I still think it would be difficult to trade him for much of a return, but I don't think it would be impossible without having to add draft picks.

Aging forward, long expensive contract and probable diminishing stats, you gotta add a lot of picks to get rid of that. Exact opposite of what Calgary needs.

[Southside403]

This team is in a cap crunch really interesting who is going to get moved. We do have some guys can fetch great returns bring up some of the kids we don't really have a choice .

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Kadri himself said he could have taken more to go elsewhere. Could have been lip service. Regardless, I find it hard to believe the outbid other teams by a significant margin in terms or dollars.

Edit: easy to point out the UFA signings that haven’t panned out. The Flames seem to think that is a way to build a team and aren’t shy to do so. On the flip side of the coin they have had success here too, one could argue. Frolik, Tanev, Gudbransson, Engellend (I’d argue) were worthy signings. Far too soon to label Kadri a bust. Same goes for Coleman and Markstrom.

I would include Tanev, Frolik and Engelland in the same category as well. Frolik and Engelland were guys that definitely did not perform to any level of quality.

Tanev, Coleman, Kadri are not busts but, in my view, are a bad way to spend money. I would say that all 3 have given us exactly what I would expect but that their deals are not a good use of cap space. I don't see a lot of teams having success building their teams around FA middle six/depth players. Kadri/Coleman are perfect examples of what good teams do and that is players good when making half of what they do when signed as FA's.

As for Kadri as I said it was an assumption based on how long he waited to sign, other contracts given out and him eventually signing for Calgary. If he could have got more somewhere else but took less to sign with a mediocre Calgary team he has no connections to that is a puzzling move. The team did not offer him a chance to win, isn't in a warm weather location, doesn't have a promising future, isn't close to home. What is the incentive to sign for less for him?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I would include Tanev, Frolik and Engelland in the same category as well. Frolik and Engelland were guys that definitely did not perform to any level of quality.

Tanev, Coleman, Kadri are not busts but, in my view, are a bad way to spend money. I would say that all 3 have given us exactly what I would expect but that their deals are not a good use of cap space. I don't see a lot of teams having success building their teams around FA middle six/depth players. Kadri/Coleman are perfect examples of what good teams do and that is players good when making half of what they do when signed as FA's.

As for Kadri as I said it was an assumption based on how long he waited to sign, other contracts given out and him eventually signing for Calgary. If he could have got more somewhere else but took less to sign with a mediocre Calgary team he has no connections to that is a puzzling move. The team did not offer him a chance to win, isn't in a warm weather location, doesn't have a promising future, isn't close to home. What is the incentive to sign for less for him?

Not sure I follow you. On one hand you agree that Frolik, Tanev and Engelkand were good signings then immediately follow that up with saying Engelland and Frolik did not perform to any level of quality. I’ll argue that, specifically with Frolik, as he Backlund and whomever they played with were a dominant possession line for at least three years of his deal. Frolik was a very good UFA signing.

Kadri does have a connection to the City, he has family here. Most people I know take many things into consideration when making decisions of where or who they want to work for. Sure, money is important but there are other thing and maybe some of those things are more important than money. Rightly or wrongly Kadri said winning was part of his decision. I know it’s hard to acknowledge now but many pre-season predictions had this team being better than they were the season prior.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Not sure I follow you. On one hand you agree that Frolik, Tanev and Engelkand were good signings then immediately follow that up with saying Engelland and Frolik did not perform to any level of quality. I’ll argue that, specifically with Frolik, as he Backlund and whomever they played with were a dominant possession line for at least three years of his deal. Frolik was a very good UFA signing.

Kadri does have a connection to the City, he has family here. Most people I know take many things into consideration when making decisions of where or who they want to work for. Sure, money is important but there are other thing and maybe some of those things are more important than money. Rightly or wrongly Kadri said winning was part of his decision. I know it’s hard to acknowledge now but many pre-season predictions had this team being better than they were the season prior.

Sorry if I was not clear but I did not think they were good signings I think they offered what I expected from them, but that by their nature they were bad signings because you rarely get value from paying FAs to fill in middle six roles, especially when you are a mediocre squad and do it as much as the Flames have. There is a difference there.

It isn't hard to acknowledge I know many people were wrong, and crazy, and made those predictions. They were clearly out to lunch when they were made and even more clearly out to lunch after watching the season.

And this all doesn't change the fact that there is little to no trade market for Kadri.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Sorry if I was not clear but I did not think they were good signings I think they offered what I expected from them, but that by their nature they were bad signings because you rarely get value from paying FAs to fill in middle six roles, especially when you are a mediocre squad and do it as much as the Flames have. There is a difference there.

It isn't hard to acknowledge I know many people were wrong, and crazy, and made those predictions. They were clearly out to lunch when they were made and even more clearly out to lunch after watching the season.

And this all doesn't change the fact that there is little to no trade market for Kadri.

Frolik was middle six but Tanev is top pairing calibre, depending on the description, and Eneglland was bottom pairing/7th D.

Arguably though, middle role players are where you should be filling the holes via UFAs or trades. It's the top lines that need to be home grown, in order to utilize their ELC/RFA years to their best ability. Cup winners routinely fill in those spots like that.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Rebound to what?

his season last year is what he has done over the vast majority of career. Thinking he will rebound to a massive career season he has in a perfect situation in Colorado seems very unlikely.

I think the mistake is thinking that Kadri had a down year last season and will get to the one off season he had in Colorado and not realizing that last season is the player that Kadri has been for his career and will continue to be in his mid-late 30's.

Rebound to the player he was at the start of the year where he was hovering around a point per game over the first quarter season or so and not be the lazy turnover machine who would go long stretches without scoring post all star break

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So you would want less for Lindholm than the Canucks got for 30 games of Horvat? Flames need more than a 1st if they are trading Lindholm.

Krebs was the key prospect in the Eichel trade so I don’t think they would part with him.

The Buffalo pick is a known quantity at this point; a chance to add a cost controlled impact player. New York could have won the Cup and picked 32nd.

But, I see your point.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I think they gave him that money and term to get him to come to Calgary. I said there were not other teams interested in that money and term. I have repeatedly said teams would be interested in Kadri but not interested in his deal.

Blurb from the athletic in Sept by Pierre Lebrun:


Kadri, meanwhile, is believed to have turned down a six-year offer from another club worth $8.5 million AAV pretty early in free agency. The fit obviously wasn’t right for him.


I also think given Kadri’s relationship with his old GM in Toronto, Lou Lamoriello, that some of the wait-and-see approach was seeing if the Islanders would be able to move cap space and make Kadri a contract offer. There was definitely interest in Kadri from the Islanders.


Ferris, when contacted this week, would not disclose what other teams were in on Kadri, beyond saying it came down to three clubs before his client chose the Flames. Once Treliving realized he had a real shot at Kadri, he dug in hard.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Rebound to the player he was at the start of the year where he was hovering around a point per game over the first quarter season or so and not be the lazy turnover machine who would go long stretches without scoring post all star break

I think expecting Kadri to be a PPG player is expecting way too much. He has done that once in 11 NHL seasons.