2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Royle9]

What's lost here in a lot of the back and forth with trading away the UFA targets on the flames is this:

Lindholm
Hanifin
Backlund
Tanev
Toffoli

Calgary cannot afford to simply extend ALL of these guys to what likely will be their respective last "big" contract from both a sheer money aspect but also an organizational depth aspect. We'd be locked into 6+ contracts for players over the age of 30+ (Hanifin exempt and Lindholm included as he'll be 29)

The dollar figure alone for these guys would be extreme, with Lindholm and Hanifin expecting raises, Toffoli could likely get more and then Backlund and Tanev you would hope sign for the same or a little less home town discount.

Just cant do it.

This draft is the time to do it from an organizational strength standpoint.

Both Lindholm and Hanifin easily fetch another first + more picks or A prospects, especially with extensions. The other players are worth later picks or even some younger depth guys. The thing is the Flames need a GM and a Coach established before anything can really happen I'd imagine.

Just really hope they get it together here soon, and I hope they stray away from the overpaid veteran model and realize now is the time to capitalize on career year Toffoli and guys who likely wont resign.

[Lanny_McDonald]

@Royle9

Agree with what you're saying. I think you have to look at the organization and determine what we have to replace any of these guys if they leave.

Lindholm - we have nothing that can backfill Lindholm. Elias is a top line center and we don't have one in the pipe in any shape or form.
Hanifin - we have Kylington coming back and then have three defenders in the minors that might some day get to the same level Hanifin plays at. He would be difficult to replace but we might survive.
Backlund - Zary could someday be a replacement for Backlund. We have to acknowledge that he's on the downslope of his career and prepare for that. Backlund is a guy I would consider moving this year.
Tanev - another guy we really don't have a replacement for. We have three blueliners that are close in my estimation, but no warriors like Tanev. Tough decision here because of his age. Move him at your peril, especially if you elect to move Hanifin.
Toffoli - Coronato is a natural replacement, but not right now. Still a couple years away, but definitely in the pipe. Timing sucks.

The problem we have here is we're looking to dump a lot of guys with nothing tangible to back them up. Young players were not given a chance to prove they are capable of stepping in so we don't know. It's all a roll of the dice.

We're going to have to make moves post-draft IMO. I don't see many teams lining up to trade top picks in this draft for guys on expiring contracts. These are deadline moves. Should have been addressed last deadline or is something to do at the upcoming deadline. I think this draft may have sailed.

[Hackey]

The off season is probably the best time to deal guys if possible. You're giving teams a full season of that player and teams have the most flexibility then. You also don't need to replace the players immediately. At some point you need to take a few steps back to move forward. I don't see this current core being worth wasting assets on.

[Lanny_McDonald]

What/who is the current core?

[Hackey]

Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Coleman, Markstrom. Thats a lot of cap eaten up for a long time and not very elite. Doesn't matter what you call that group they are all very tough to move and likely bringing back next to nothing. Might even need to give up assets or eat salary to move them. Brad left a mess.

[MacDaddy77]

at this point in time I'd view the "core" as

Forwards
Huberdeau
Kadri (NMC)
Pelletier
Coronato

Defense
Weegar
Hanifin
Anderson

Goal

Wolf.

I'd be listening to trades on anyone/everyone else.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Coleman, Markstrom. Thats a lot of cap eaten up for a long time and not very elite. Doesn't matter what you call that group they are all very tough to move and likely bringing back next to nothing. Might even need to give up assets or eat salary to move them. Brad left a mess.

Coleman is worth every penny so far.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Coleman is worth every penny so far.

Hasn't broke 20 goals or 40 pts. Pretty average.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

at this point in time I'd view the "core" as

Forwards
Huberdeau
Kadri (NMC)
Pelletier
Coronato

Defense
Weegar
Hanifin
Anderson

Goal

Wolf.

I'd be listening to trades on anyone/everyone else.

How can Coronato and Wolf be part of the core? They've played 1 game each (or thereabouts). Both could easily be busts at the NHL level - I doubt it, but crazier things have happened.

[MacDaddy77]

Because of their upside.

My definition of "core" players is who you would build around and this is the list I have.

Everyone else is tradeable.

[Hackey]

I agree with that because typically your core is your highest paid players who are signed the longest. But even if they are not your best players, if they make a lot of money and are here for a long time I think you add those players as well because they're not going anywhere. You might not want to build around Kadri and Weegar but they ain't going anywhere.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No. No he's not.
It's an odd dynamic that the fan base seems very down on this team (rightly so) but then a bunch of trade proposals over the last couple of days are wildly unrealistic and overvalue those same players everyone is down on.

Disagree.

Hanifin is younger, much cheaper, and plays a more important position. If you were to rate each as a hockey player on their own merits, I think most people would score Nylander a little higher. But trade value? I think that tilts to Hanifin.

Also, the Flames don't need more wingers. We need a C, if there is any consideration to moving Lindholm or Backlund.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

@Royle9

Agree with what you're saying. I think you have to look at the organization and determine what we have to replace any of these guys if they leave.

Lindholm - we have nothing that can backfill Lindholm. Elias is a top line center and we don't have one in the pipe in any shape or form.
Hanifin - we have Kylington coming back and then have three defenders in the minors that might some day get to the same level Hanifin plays at. He would be difficult to replace but we might survive.
Backlund - Zary could someday be a replacement for Backlund. We have to acknowledge that he's on the downslope of his career and prepare for that. Backlund is a guy I would consider moving this year.
Tanev - another guy we really don't have a replacement for. We have three blueliners that are close in my estimation, but no warriors like Tanev. Tough decision here because of his age. Move him at your peril, especially if you elect to move Hanifin.
Toffoli - Coronato is a natural replacement, but not right now. Still a couple years away, but definitely in the pipe. Timing sucks.

The problem we have here is we're looking to dump a lot of guys with nothing tangible to back them up. Young players were not given a chance to prove they are capable of stepping in so we don't know. It's all a roll of the dice.

We're going to have to make moves post-draft IMO. I don't see many teams lining up to trade top picks in this draft for guys on expiring contracts. These are deadline moves. Should have been addressed last deadline or is something to do at the upcoming deadline. I think this draft may have sailed.

I disagree on the young players not getting a chance narrative.

Pelletier
Duehr
Gilbert
Ruzicka
Mackey
Valimaki

All had extended stints. Pelletier looked alright but not quite there yet production wise. Ruzicka started hot and dissappeared. Gilbert looked serviceable but raw. Duehr looks like a find. Mackey and Valimaki were horrible.

Phillips got a cup of coffee. Wolf got his token game. Coronato wasn’t available.

That’s 9 players. I’m guessing at least 5 or 6 start next season on the roster.

Duehr
Pelletier
Wolf
Gilbert
Ruzicka
Coronato maybe

How many do you need?

[traptor]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

at this point in time I'd view the "core" as

Forwards
Huberdeau
Kadri (NMC)
Pelletier
Coronato

Defense
Weegar
Hanifin
Anderson

Goal

Wolf.

I'd be listening to trades on anyone/everyone else.

I agree but without hanifin. He's solid but not amazing and given that he's a doesn't have a contract after next season I don't view him as part of the core.

I'd also consider adding Dube to the list. He's young rfa, on an upward trajectory and seems to be quickly becoming a leader of the team based on what pelletier and coronato have said about him

[MacDaddy77]

yea was on the fence about Dube, I decided not to include him as a Core piece but do think he's important. If Mang bounces back next year I'd trade him and keep Dube instead.

[MacDaddy77]

I just see the flames as too old and too slow with current roster, my ideal "core" group is young and has speed (or has long term NMC contracts)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Hasn't broke 20 goals or 40 pts. Pretty average.

And he's paid $4.9M, 73rd among UFA contract forwards. He ranks 63rd among UFA forwards point wise and that of course is not counting his other non-points contributions. You can throw a blanket over forwards around the same age, salary and production: Granlund, Strome, Hoffman, Dadonov, etc.

He earns his money.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I disagree on the young players not getting a chance narrative.

Disagree all you want. It's not a narrative, it happened.

Pelletier - sent to the press box down the stretch when needed some speed and energy. Did not get a chance to prove himself.
Duehr - 25 year old. Not a young player.
Gilbert - 26 year old. Not a young player.
Ruzicka - rarely played after January. Only seven games after the end of January.
Mackey - 26 year old. Not a young player.
Valimaki - didn't play for the Flames in 2022-23. Got 9 games in 2021-22 after looking like he stuck the previous season.

Phillips got a cup of coffee. Wolf got his token game. Coronato wasn’t available.

Not a fan of Phillips, but even I have to admit he got screwed over. Did not get the opportunity that he rightly deserved. Wolf and Coronato getting a mercy game at the end of the season is NOT getting an opportunity. Getting an opportunity is playing when the chips are down so you gain experience and can handle the pressure the next time your in that situation. All of the players listed were on a short leash and were not afforded opportunity like other teams do. We don't know what we have and we're going to have to find out next season. 2022-23 was a lost year where players could have got some serious development in. The youth on this team always gets the shaft so players like Milan Lucic or one of the Ritchies can snow plow their way around the ice and be a drag on the club.

How many do you need?

As many as it takes.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And he's paid $4.9M, 73rd among UFA contract forwards. He ranks 63rd among UFA forwards point wise and that of course is not counting his other non-points contributions. You can throw a blanket over forwards around the same age, salary and production: Granlund, Strome, Hoffman, Dadonov, etc.

He earns his money.

He's also 32 this year with 4 more years left on his deal. He's also on a team that doesn't have a Point, Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman. So ya I'm not very impressed by his 33 and 38 pts sorry. 218 players in the league had that point total or better this year. So he's an average third liner making 5 million until the age of 36. Pretty underwhelming. But I guess when you compare him to some of our other contracts it's not so bad.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Hackey

He's also 32 this year with 4 more years left on his deal. He's also on a team that doesn't have a Point, Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman. So ya I'm not very impressed by his 33 and 38 pts sorry. 218 players in the league had that point total or better this year. So he's an average third liner making 5 million until the age of 36. Pretty underwhelming. But I guess when you compare him to some of our other contracts it's not so bad.

You're comparing him to guys that play PP though, his point production isn't going to compare to guys who put up 20-30 points on the PP when he doesn't get that opportunity.

At 5v5 his 32 points would place him 107th in the NHL among forwards - comfortably in 2nd liner production. Tied with Dylan Larkin and Nino Niedereiter and ahead of JT Miller.

If you look at the last two seasons his 62 5V5 points would actually have him ranked ahead of Tyler Toffoli (60). Sam Bennett who we are all so mad we lost has 59 5v5 points in that time.

Blake Coleman has been full marks in his two seasons here.