Russia invades Ukraine

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Man- the anti russia propoganda in this thread is real. based on this thread, id think ukraine is at the doorsteps of moscow. russia holds vast chunks of ukraine territory yet all this thread shows is russian casualities, equipment losses etc. what about ukraine? present a two sided picture if you want to present one at all.

Kyiv in 3 days is now approaching day 1,050 with 20k vehicle losses not including repurposed civilian vehicles and a probable loss of manpower nearing 800k killed and wounded. Documented Ukrainian losses using the same criteria show up around 7,500 vehicles and around 150-250k men.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...ukrainian.html

[karl262]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Man- the anti russia propoganda in this thread is real. based on this thread, id think ukraine is at the doorsteps of moscow. russia holds vast chunks of ukraine territory yet all this thread shows is russian casualities, equipment losses etc. what about ukraine? present a two sided picture if you want to present one at all.

Feel free to share some pro Russia propaganda, I'm sure it's all reasonable stuff

Sent from my SM-F741W using Tapatalk

[karl262]

Actually I'll start, this one's from awhile ago:

Today the glorious moskva warships successfully intercepted multiple antiship missiles using it's hull. For it's achievement the cruiser has been promoted to the rank of submarine.

Sent from my SM-F741W using Tapatalk

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Man- the anti russia propoganda in this thread is real. based on this thread, id think ukraine is at the doorsteps of moscow. russia holds vast chunks of ukraine territory yet all this thread shows is russian casualities, equipment losses etc. what about ukraine? present a two sided picture if you want to present one at all.

We just want Russia to lose, how difficult is that to understand? the idea that Europe would be threatened by a nation of drunken pig farmers who can't build a car is abhorrent to us

The '30 day' conquest is into 3 years and Russia is teetering on the brink of economic collapse for the gain of a few thousand square miles of land that look exactly the same as the millions and millions of square miles of land Russia has never had the competence to do anything with since the times of the Tzars

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Man- the anti russia propoganda in this thread is real. based on this thread, id think ukraine is at the doorsteps of moscow. russia holds vast chunks of ukraine territory yet all this thread shows is russian casualities, equipment losses etc. what about ukraine? present a two sided picture if you want to present one at all.

I think this is more of an anti Putin as opposed to anti Russian people mentality. I have a lot of Russian/former Soviet friends who obviously take a little bit of a different view on things. A lot of Russian people are just not as aware as to what is really going on. A lot of people don't really understand the geopolitical situation that this has and will cause going forward.

The longer this goes on the more and more we start to see different sides and how things may not be as how they seem.

Your even starting to see a more vocal messaging from Kyiv and from Washington against each other as things don't appear to be going well. American military leaders and Biden have kinda had it up to here with Zelensky and perhaps not taking the level of advice and political decisions that need to be made. On the flip side we have Ukrainian leaders wondering why on earth a lack of actual western will power to do more to have stopped this a long time hasn't materialized.

Some Ukrainian reporting is kind of showing that at least with Trump in power there will be a more forceful decision making process one way or another. It may not benefit Ukraine directly but a more forceful tone and quicker decision making may.

All around this has been a disaster for everybody involved and it's kinda getting to the point I actually feared. Where what needed to be done wasn't, the few powerful men in suits couldn't hash it out, support one way will crumble, Ukraine will lost significant chunks of it's territory and millions and millions of people will have been killed, injured for life, homes and towns destroyed and lives forever altered because the men in power couldn't actually lead to a resolution.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Man- the anti russia propoganda in this thread is real. based on this thread, id think ukraine is at the doorsteps of moscow. russia holds vast chunks of ukraine territory yet all this thread shows is russian casualities, equipment losses etc. what about ukraine? present a two sided picture if you want to present one at all.

Sorry, but #### Russia and the fascist pigs they are.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Man- the anti russia propoganda in this thread is real. based on this thread, id think ukraine is at the doorsteps of moscow. russia holds vast chunks of ukraine territory yet all this thread shows is russian casualities, equipment losses etc. what about ukraine? present a two sided picture if you want to present one at all.

Sorry Comrade

[Playfair]

I too have Ukrainian friends who are from the Russian border side of Ukraine. When I was talking to them about it, they had a different take. They said that they identified as Russian, and that Ukraine was a new idea. Agree or not, it was good to have a different take from people who are actually from that area.

That being said, war is pure evil. Israel against Iran, USA vs. Iraq, Russia vs. Ukraine. Innocent people on all sides die senselessly for the pride and arrogance of leaders who don't care about their own people.

[Blaster86]

My dad works for Nintendo.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think even the most pro-Ukrainian people understand the situation Ukraine is in. No one denies that 15% of Ukraine is now occupied by Russia or that the war is devastating to Ukraine. The point is that Russia isn't "winning" either. Ukraine has inflicted a higher magnitude of casualties against Russia and prevented them from reaching their original war objectives, all while also watching Russia destroy their economy. I would argue that the fight they put up possibly prevented Russia from taking other European territories in the near future. If Ukraine would have rolled over, I think it is very likely that we would currently be talking about Russian aggression on a different country right now, but Ukraine has pretty much made this impossible... for now at least.

As much as I hate to say it, a post-war Ukraine may not recover all of their lost territory which sucks big time. Even Zelenskyy has been preparing Ukrainians for the possibility that will have to accept that Russia will maintain control over the occupied areas for the foreseeable future if there is going to be an end to the war. But if or when this ends and Ukraine successfully defended 85% of their territory and affirms their sovereignty against a country everyone thought would walk right over them, it won't be a total loss. It is kind of like how Finland stood up to the USSR in WW2. They had to cede territory but it probably also ensured their overall survival as an independent nation.

There is also the possibility that a post-Putin Russia one day will return some territory.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think even the most pro-Ukrainian people understand the situation Ukraine is in. No one denies that 15% of Ukraine is now occupied by Russia or that the war is devastating to Ukraine. The point is that Russia isn't "winning" either. Ukraine has inflicted a higher magnitude of casualties against Russia and prevented them from reaching their original war objectives, all while also watching Russia destroy their economy. I would argue that the fight they put up possibly prevented Russia from taking other European territories in the near future. If Ukraine would have rolled over, I think it is very likely that we would currently be talking about Russian aggression on a different country right now, but Ukraine has pretty much made this impossible... for now at least.

As much as I hate to say it, a post-war Ukraine may not recover all of their lost territory which sucks big time. Even Zelenskyy has been preparing Ukrainians for the possibility that will have to accept that Russia will maintain control over the occupied areas for the foreseeable future if there is going to be an end to the war. But if or when this ends and Ukraine successfully defended 85% of their territory and affirms their sovereignty against a country everyone thought would walk right over them, it won't be a total loss. It is kind of like how Finland stood up to the USSR in WW2. They had to cede territory but it probably also ensured their overall survival as an independent nation.

There is also the possibility that a post-Putin Russia one day will return some territory.

You're not wrong on any particular point, except the bolded is far, far, far, far, far, far, far less likely than Russia regroups and takes more territory after any concession. The point always gets missed.

This isn't war vs peace. It's just not. It's the current awful war vs worse future war. There's an absolute Zero percent chance Russia signs something then gives up. If anyone has any delusions about this being about NATO encroachment or any other gullible chicken feed, it should be dispelled by now.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Playfair

I too have Ukrainian friends who are from the Russian border side of Ukraine. When I was talking to them about it, they had a different take. They said that they identified as Russian, and that Ukraine was a new idea. Agree or not, it was good to have a different take from people who are actually from that area.

That being said, war is pure evil. Israel against Iran, USA vs. Iraq, Russia vs. Ukraine. Innocent people on all sides die senselessly for the pride and arrogance of leaders who don't care about their own people.

Identify however you want… none of it justifies military invasion…

[Mr.Coffee]

No way Russia returns lands it stole in this war. Not a chance.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think even the most pro-Ukrainian people understand the situation Ukraine is in. No one denies that 15% of Ukraine is now occupied by Russia or that the war is devastating to Ukraine. The point is that Russia isn't "winning" either. Ukraine has inflicted a higher magnitude of casualties against Russia and prevented them from reaching their original war objectives, all while also watching Russia destroy their economy. I would argue that the fight they put up possibly prevented Russia from taking other European territories in the near future. If Ukraine would have rolled over, I think it is very likely that we would currently be talking about Russian aggression on a different country right now, but Ukraine has pretty much made this impossible... for now at least.

As much as I hate to say it, a post-war Ukraine may not recover all of their lost territory which sucks big time. Even Zelenskyy has been preparing Ukrainians for the possibility that will have to accept that Russia will maintain control over the occupied areas for the foreseeable future if there is going to be an end to the war. But if or when this ends and Ukraine successfully defended 85% of their territory and affirms their sovereignty against a country everyone thought would walk right over them, it won't be a total loss. It is kind of like how Finland stood up to the USSR in WW2. They had to cede territory but it probably also ensured their overall survival as an independent nation.

There is also the possibility that a post-Putin Russia one day will return some territory.

Most of it is flattened to the point where it looks like they filmed the walking dead series, Ukraine likely wouldn't have to money to rebuild it for decades

[Playfair]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Identify however you want… none of it justifies military invasion…

Never said it did. Just another perspective that isn't shared by me

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Never said it did. Just another perspective that isn't shared by me

I think we all understand that some people are fine with war… you needed someone to tell you this to your face?

I honestly don’t know what “perspective” you’re trying to enlighten us with.

[Huntingwhale]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1876200522031452273

I have not heard of Lex Fridmen before until recently. By all accounts he's on the same tier as Tucker Carlson or whatever other talk radio nutjobs out there. He did an interview with Zelensky recently which I will watch, if only to hear Zelensky speak his mind. Love this snippet by Zelensky in response to what seemed to be a dumb question by Fridmen.

[Fuzz]

Lex is just another boot licker who pretentds to be neutral and curious while subtly indoctrinating his listeners over 4 hours of pseudo intellectual chud.

[Huntingwhale]

Listened to most of the interview. Always great to listen to Zelensky and probably his best interview he's done for an English audience. The AI translator is really cool. But Lex is...dim. Seems like a nice guy, but quite dim. He fits his American audience quite well and I can see why Zelensky agreed to do the interview; try to reach to the dim American audience's who still think Zelensky flies to the US, comes homes with bags of cash, and there is some magic deal to be made with russia.

Lex constantly brought up russian/Trump talking points (russia saving russian speakers, Trump going to stop the war, Putin loves russia, Trump/Musk care about fighting corruption, etc) and Zelensky basically shat all over his points perfectly.

My favorite quote:

Lex: I hope the people of russia can hear this interview (on YouTube).
Zelensky: You know YouTube is now banned in russia, right?
Lex:...yes. They will hear it on the internet somehow

Lots of great insights into the various ceasefires russia broke, why a ceasefire cannot happen now, behind the scenes getting aid, and dealing with putin directly. If there are people who listen to this interview and still on the fence as to whether russia is justified or support them, then they are as dim as the host.

[Monahammer]

Lex Fridman is such a doorknob. It is aggravating that people like him have been elevated so much. He got his start with looney conspiracy videos (like aliens in ancient ruins level ####) on youtube and now he's interviewing Zelensky. Let me off this ####in ride.