Sutter is the problem

[Rutuu]

So who are the better than Sutter coach we're bringing in next season that stops us from losing all the OT games, has our shooting % climb above league average and gets the goalie save percentage to league average.

Oh...and the GM too if we've got ideas.

For me I want to run Sutter back, Treiliving up to POHO and Kyle Dubas comes in.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I'm always curious when people say this... What style of play suits the players on this team then?

If your point is correct, shouldn't it be on the GM to bring in players who fit the style that the coach is trying to employ?

No, the opposite. You can't change all the players to fit the coach, the coach has to manage the players that he has.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, the opposite. You can't change all the players to fit the coach, the coach has to manage the players that he has.

Top coaches evolve their ways systems strategy to fit the team they have, you don't trade 23 players because Darryl Sutters view on hockey is to grind it along the boards.

Look at all the leagues all the coaches who had longevity evolve with their teams. I look at older coaches like Andy Reid, Greg Popovich being able to adapt to the younger generation and style of play to suit the team.

[GioforPM]

If I was a betting man, I'd say Sutter gets at least another year as coach out of his new 2 year deal. There's no way the team fires him before his new deal even starts.

I doubt Sutter even wants GM, BTW. Too much off season work.

[HighLifeMan]

I really question why the PP was never truly ran through Huberdeau, and why such little adjustments were made to what was such a slow, plodding, predictable PP scheme all season long.

This is a player who had averaged over 35 points a year (by pace) on the PP over the previous 4 years. He has just 15 PP this year. To me that seems so easily correctable and would bring him back to point per game levels.

Just a ton of quite frankly head scratching decisions that only highlighted the downfalls of a system that decreases the margins for mistakes.

I don't think it's a coincidence that this team struggled against bottom feeders as the way Darryl has the team player really eliminates the skill gap between teams.

[AndyM]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

So who are the better than Sutter coach we're bringing in next season that stops us from losing all the OT games, has our shooting % climb above league average and gets the goalie save percentage to league average.

Mitch Love has been able to get to everything from his players over the past two years, one in Stockton and now in Calgary. There was plenty of turnover during the summer, and he figured out how to give the prospects meaningful minutes while icing a successful lineup. Obviously, Wolf has a lot to do with it, but he seems to have a good feel for the group.

I also selfishly hope that if he were to get promoted, he could play a role in Matthew Phillips staying with the organization. Otherwise, the Calgary kid is gone.

[chedder]

This team might perform better next year if Sutter is still the coach, but they won't be any more fun to watch.

I would way rather see a new coach who will give Coronato a legitimate look and have Pelletier consistently in the lineup. And Wolf cannot be in the AHL next year.

A different coach who will build around Huberdeau's strengths.

Also, as someone else said, I'd like to see the players have smiles on their faces sometimes. I believe most, if not all, of the issues with this team this year have at least something to do with the coach's abrasive style and perplexing decisions.

[midniteowl]

If they don't want to fire Sutter, at least fire Muller, the offence and the PP under him are bad. Get rid of him and bring Love up.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

If they don't want to fire Sutter, at least fire Muller, the offence and the PP under him are bad. Get rid of him and bring Love up.

Was it Sutter who once said he didn't practice power play? This was pre-Muller.

Honestly, other teams with similar or even lesser players have better power plays.

[iggyloob12]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Was it Sutter who once said he didn't practice power play? This was pre-Muller.

Honestly, other teams with similar or even lesser players have better power plays.

I think that was Keenan years ago.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Was it Sutter who once said he didn't practice power play? This was pre-Muller.

Honestly, other teams with similar or even lesser players have better power plays.

PP might be the biggest dissapointment to me TBH.

Sutter's system 5v5 is boring - but we are 8th in 5v5 goals for.

Markstrom had his issues - but some of that is leak defense.

IMO the PP has no excuses for being as bad as it is. And failing to figure out how to set up a PP around Lindholm and Huberdeau is just an absolute failure by the coaching staff.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Top coaches evolve their ways systems strategy to fit the team they have, you don't trade 23 players because Darryl Sutters view on hockey is to grind it along the boards.

Look at all the leagues all the coaches who had longevity evolve with their teams. I look at older coaches like Andy Reid, Greg Popovich being able to adapt to the younger generation and style of play to suit the team.

Well first of all, Flames did not “grind it along the boards”. Nor did Dr hey “dump and chase” to quote another misconception. Lots of days that shows the Flames carry the puck in and generate odd man rushes.

As for Pop and Andy Reid adapting their systems. How so? Both are great coaches who have been able to win when armed with great players. They don’t do so well when they don’t have great players.

No great coach is coaching to get his players great statistics. Give me a coach who knows how to implement a winning system and a team of players who are skilled and willing to listen.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I'm always curious when people say this... What style of play suits the players on this team then?

If your point is correct, shouldn't it be on the GM to bring in players who fit the style that the coach is trying to employ?

It's absolutely on the GM to find the right players to fit in the system, especially when you consider that the GM in question had already made numerous mistakes acquiring players that didn't fit the prior systems that had been deployed by coaches that he personally hired.

Fit is a massive aspect of talent evaluation and roster building. If a fan like me could see it from a mile away that Huberdeau was going to struggle this season, then surely someone in that experienced management group they have should have seen it. Like honestly, I don't even know if his scouting staff even bothered to watch the Panthers play once before they even traded for him.

If our management group actually bothered to do some analysis last summer, then they would have seen Carter freakin' Verhaeghe play and would've realized that this guy should have been the target as he would have been a perfect fit under Darryl's system. I know that's the guy I noticed the most when watching Florida play last year. He even popped this season scoring 41 goals most of which came at even strength (4th in the league). The Flames missed out, I think he and his skillset could've been a heck of a player here.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It's absolutely on the GM to find the right players to fit in the system, especially when you consider that the GM in question had already made numerous mistakes acquiring players that didn't fit the prior systems that had been deployed by coaches that he personally hired.

Fit is a massive aspect of talent evaluation and roster building. If a fan like me could see it from a mile away that Huberdeau was going to struggle this season, then surely someone in that experienced management group they have should have seen it. Like honestly, I don't even know if his scouting staff even bothered to watch the Panthers play once before they even traded for him.

If our management group actually bothered to do some analysis last summer, then they would have seen Carter freakin' Verhaeghe play and would've realized that this guy should have been the target as he would have been a perfect fit under Darryl's system. I know that's the guy I noticed the most when watching Florida play last year. He even popped this season scoring 41 goals most of which came at even strength (4th in the league). The Flames missed out, I think he and his skillset could've been a heck of a player here.

Agreed!

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Top coaches evolve their ways systems strategy to fit the team they have, you don't trade 23 players because Darryl Sutters view on hockey is to grind it along the boards.

Look at all the leagues all the coaches who had longevity evolve with their teams. I look at older coaches like Andy Reid, Greg Popovich being able to adapt to the younger generation and style of play to suit the team.

How did that work for Bruce Boudreau? Everywhere he goes, his top guys produce, yet, no Cup. Just because your star players do well, it doesn't guarantee team success. There's no perfect system.

[Vinny01]

While I would really enjoy Mitch Love guiding the Wranglers to the Clader Cup and then becoming the Flames coach if they do get rid of Sutter and go for a veteran I do wonder about Quenville? Could they get him on the cheap because he wants to get back in the league? Would there be backlash hiring him?

A guy who got some of the best years out of Huberdeau with a hall of fame resume would be alright.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Lmao what a ridiculous take.

Yes let's blow up the team so we can bring in Sutter players I'm sure 4 lines of Lucic and Lewis is how teams build teams.

A 2 year coach is what we should be building around lol.

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, bringing in a player or two, that fits the coach's style, to round out the roster is one thing. Building the team round the coach's style is another, and is not feasible, sensible, or realistic.

You build the team based on the organizational philosophy and plan. And you hire a coach to execute that plan.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I really question why the PP was never truly ran through Huberdeau, and why such little adjustments were made to what was such a slow, plodding, predictable PP scheme all season long.

This is a player who had averaged over 35 points a year (by pace) on the PP over the previous 4 years. He has just 15 PP this year. To me that seems so easily correctable and would bring him back to point per game levels.

Just a ton of quite frankly head scratching decisions that only highlighted the downfalls of a system that decreases the margins for mistakes.

I don't think it's a coincidence that this team struggled against bottom feeders as the way Darryl has the team player really eliminates the skill gap between teams.

What do you mean exactly? Hubderdeau is in the exact spot Gaudreau was last year along with the exact same system/formation that he had in Florida? Everything was the same. He still gets all kinds of puck touches, but did he create enough this season?

The coaches actually tried quite a few things to varying levels of success, but ultimately, PPs are pretty simple. If you have the talent, you'll have a good PP (see Ottawa/Buffalo). Those teams aren't any good, but they have top 10 PPs because their talent can execute better. It's probably that simple.

The Flames PP was top 10 last year mainly because of Tkachuk and to a lesser extent Gaudreau. Removing both of them was always going to result in a drop off. Look at Florida for instance, they lost 35 PP from Huberdeau yet they're still top 10 this season.

To me, I think losing Tkachuk was the biggest loss to the Flames' PP and the organization definitely did not and probably could not find a comparable enough replacement.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

What do you mean exactly? Hubderdeau is in the exact spot Gaudreau was last year along with the exact same system/formation that he had in Florida? Everything was the same. He still gets all kinds of puck touches, but did he create enough this season?

The coaches actually tried quite a few things to varying levels of success, but ultimately, PPs are pretty simple. If you have the talent, you'll have a good PP (see Ottawa/Buffalo). Those teams aren't any good, but they have top 10 PPs because their talent can execute better. It's probably that simple.

The Flames PP was top 10 last year mainly because of Tkachuk and to a lesser extent Gaudreau. Removing both of them was always going to result in a drop off. Look at Florida for instance, they lost 35 PP from Huberdeau yet they're still top 10 this season.

To me, I think losing Tkachuk was the biggest loss to the Flames' PP and the organization definitely did not and probably could not find a comparable enough replacement.

I don’t think Huberdeau gets a fraction of the touches on the powerplay that Gaudreau did. Partly because he’s not the puck carrier but partly because the puck carrier rarely dished to him.