Uber to Resume in Calgary December 6 2016

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Lil Pedro

Is there an ETA on when we can expect Uber to start running again in Calgary?

I guess it depends how long it takes to acquire the class 4 license and other checks that were presented. The license and the rate limits (I read as no surge pricing allowed) I guess will be determine how the situation proceeds.

[Fuzz]

I just read it through and a few things really stand out that makes me think Uber may not agree to this:

All PFHV drivers will be required to obtain an annual municipal licence – safety screening requirements to obtain a licence include:
• Annual Calgary Police Background check
• Annual driver demerit limit checks
• Proof of provincial requirements (currently class 4 drivers licence and commercial insurance)

This puts a burden of several hundred dollars on the driver to just "get in the game". This is counter to Uber's philosophy to being "ride sharing" and may move them closer to being an employer rather than contractor.

Every six months, PFHV drivers must submit to the Chief Livery Inspector a copy of a record of inspection for the motor vehicle pursuant to the Vehicle Inspection Regulation, AR211/2006.

As far as I know, this is a far more thorough inspection form than Uber uses, and It's been 15 years since I helped with them, but back then they were $120. They basically require you to replace things like tires and brakes far more often than usual, because in 6 months between inspections commercial vehicles can put a lot of miles on. I can't remember the details, but it was something like 30% wear on tires required replacement.

Add these 2 items up, and it won't be economical for anyone but full time Uber drivers to participate. Look at the Uber People forum, it's basically unaffordable as it is, judging from comments there.

You also have to think that Uber won't want to agree to these provisions lest they set precedent for other markets. They survive by having a very low barrier to entry for drivers, as they churn through them. Anything that threatens that is not going to be good for them.

One aspect I worry about, relating to Taxi's.

Through the approved App, taxis can choose to charge any rate and change this rate based on consumer demand and market conditions. The rate must be clear and transparent to the customer.

I could imagine situations where taxi's end up price gouging, which is exactly what having a livery bylaw is supposed to prevent. Imagine if the only way you could get the metered rate is by street hailing. Maybe this is a stretch, but something to think about.

That all being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Uber may try to fight it, while other ride sharing companies accept it to take over a territory from Uber, even if it costs them more.

[Weitz]

Don't those rules pretty much kill any ability of a casual Uber driver to make money? And thus no one would drive?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I guess it depends how long it takes to acquire the class 4 license and other checks that were presented. The license and the rate limits (I read as no surge pricing allowed) I guess will be determine how the situation proceeds.

I think you read that wrong, This seams to allow surge pricing:

Through the approved App, TNCs can choose to charge any rate and change this rate whenever they choose. The rate must be clear and transparent to the customer.
As a matter of consumer choice, prices can increase during busy times (‘surge pricing’) which encourages PFHV drivers to take trips, thus increasing the supply of vehicles

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think you read that wrong, This seams to allow surge pricing:

Yeah, quite possibly. I hadn't gone into attachment 6 at the time, and read it as being based on distance travelled only, not on other factors like time of day or holidays, etc. Guess surge pricing is still in.

Provision

PFHVs must use an approved App (Attachment 6) which calculates a fare based on distance travelled.

[getbak]

As I understand it, the app has to charge a fixed rate based on distance travelled, but the rate won't be regulated. The rate itself can fluctuate based on demand, there just has to be clarity to the user as to what the rate will be.

[Fuzz]

It's just stating what Uber already does. Provide a rate, then apply a multiplier and make that visible to the user before accepting. So no changes required there.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Weitz

On a side note:

5 foot 100 lb doctor attacks uber driver in Miami:

http://www.calgarysun.com/videos/4717132507001

Neurologist eh? I'd for sure show her my brain

[Resolute 14]

So Uber drivers have to submit to the same safety checks other taxi drivers do, and traditional taxis get to implement surge pricing but theoretically have to face far greater competition.

Looks like a level playing field to me. If Uber can't survive that way, then Uber is a failing company anyway.

[Amethyst]

The requirements sound reasonable to me. The most expensive one is the commercial insurance and I think Uber should be working with insurance companies to develop a policy rather than its current approach to claim the company has nothing to do with it. Uber's policy of calling themselves an app only and leaving insurance totally up to the drivers is what is making it unprofitable to drive for them. This is my issue with Uber - the way the company tries to get around what they really are. I like the idea of Uber - it just seems like a really sketchy company doing it.

[killer_carlson]

To you Uber fans, let me ask a couple of questions from a guy who has never used Uber. I'm legitimately interested in your answers:


The thing I like best about Uber is:

If I could change one thing about Uber it would be:


What could a cab company do to make me want to use them over an Uber driver?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

The requirements sound reasonable to me. The most expensive one is the commercial insurance and I think Uber should be working with insurance companies to develop a policy rather than its current approach to claim the company has nothing to do with it. Uber's policy of calling themselves an app only and leaving insurance totally up to the drivers is what is making it unprofitable to drive for them. This is my issue with Uber - the way the company tries to get around what they really are. I like the idea of Uber - it just seems like a really sketchy company doing it.

That's not how it works. Uber has an insurance policy, it covers the driver while they have a passenger. The insurance issue is that you are using your vehicle for commercial use, and expect to be covered by a non-comercial policy while driving without a passenger. The insurance industry can and will cancel your policy if you do this. So they are working on new (presumably more expensive) types of policies to handle this usage case. I'm sure it will get sorted, but in the mean time, you are at a big risk as an Uber driver while not carrying passengers.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's not how it works. Uber has an insurance policy, it covers the driver while they have a passenger. The insurance issue is that you are using your vehicle for commercial use, and expect to be covered by a non-comercial policy while driving without a passenger. The insurance industry can and will cancel your policy if you do this. So they are working on new (presumably more expensive) types of policies to handle this usage case. I'm sure it will get sorted, but in the mean time, you are at a big risk as an Uber driver while not carrying passengers.

If that is correct, then they are still sketchy, just directed to their drivers, not the customers. Not a fan of companies that treat their employees that way (oh right, they're not employees).

When I first heard of Uber, I was very enthusiastic. I, too, know the pain of trying to get a taxi in Calgary. But the more I hear about the company, the worse it sounds.

[STeeLy]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

The most expensive one is the commercial insurance.

I don't even know about that...

If there's anyone that works in auto insurance that can clarify this for me, please do.

When I had personal auto insurance, I was paying around $1600-$1700/year. ($1 million liability, $500 deductible, full coverage)

With my job now, I am required to get business auto insurance (I am assuming this is the same as commercial insurance, so please correct me if I'm wrong) since I am required to use my personal vehicle for work purposes. This change, and increasing liability to $2 million, with every other aspect remaining exactly the same, it is roughly about $400 extra per year. Which is an extra 25% from what I used to pay, but if you work it out over the course of the year, that's just an extra $33 per month. If you drive with Uber during peak hours, you could probably make back the $33 in a month.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by STeeLy

I don't even know about that...

If there's anyone that works in auto insurance that can clarify this for me, please do.

When I had personal auto insurance, I was paying around $1600-$1700/year. ($1 million liability, $500 deductible, full coverage)

With my job now, I am required to get business auto insurance (I am assuming this is the same as commercial insurance, so please correct me if I'm wrong) since I am required to use my personal vehicle for work purposes. This change, and increasing liability to $2 million, with every other aspect remaining exactly the same, it is roughly about $400 extra per year. Which is an extra 25% from what I used to pay, but if you work it out over the course of the year, that's just an extra $33 per month. If you drive with Uber during peak hours, you could probably make back the $33 in a month.

I'll look into it (or I'm sure someone else will just know) but I'm pretty sure commercial insurance is significantly more than business auto.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

To you Uber fans, let me ask a couple of questions from a guy who has never used Uber. I'm legitimately interested in your answers:


The thing I like best about Uber is:

If I could change one thing about Uber it would be:


What could a cab company do to make me want to use them over an Uber driver?

I have only used Uber in Phoenix and (currently there) in NYC.
The thing I like best about Uber is: I always know I can get an Uber. I think I'm hailing cabs correctly but a lot of them simply drive right past. Uber shows me the estimated fare for my trip before I request a ride. I can then see exactly where my ride is, via the app, on it's way to get me.

If I could change one thing about Uber it would be: I really haven't ran into any troubles other than sometimes in NYC I get a Lincoln MKV (which is awesome) and other times a Toyota Camry. I really can't tell which one is coming until I request a ride. I guess I could always guarantee a nicer car if I chose to use Uber Black but it really makes no difference to me.

[Fuzz]

Missed this on Friday...
http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...i-bylaws-.html

"City Staff’s recommendations to regulate ridesharing are unworkable as the proposed rules essentially treat ridesharing as a limousine product," wrote Uber spokesperson Jean-Christophe De Le Rue. "Moreover, Calgarians looking to earn some extra income for their families would have to pay almost $500 in fees and administrative costs in order to partner with a ridesharing company."

So how long before Uber says "screw it" and starts operating again? At least we know the city isn't shy about starting a lawsuit...Should be interesting where this goes.

[peter12]

It is obvious that Uber is a company that cannot operate effectively under anything but optimal market circumstances.

[squiggs96]

MOD EDIT: Inappropriate.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Missed this on Friday...
http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...i-bylaws-.html

So how long before Uber says "screw it" and starts operating again? At least we know the city isn't shy about starting a lawsuit...Should be interesting where this goes.

I think after the cities proposed bylaw passes you'd see a lot less support for uber than you did the first time.