[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Stay Golden]

I had hoped Sven could crack the Flames roster as a regular but it became clear that regardless of how many shots he got he was not going to cut it.
At least not this season, so if Sven went to the Flames and said he had no interest in resigning with the Flames then a decision by the organization had to be made.
Get a low draft pick while we can.
Personally I feel Sven is one of these players that feels he is better than the AHL and is entitled to be in the NHL because of being a 1st round 13th overall pick from 2011. JMO Sven felt hard done by, hey kid earn it he didn't.

Now that he is a Canuck I look at him like every Canuck. I don't give a rats az he was a Flame your part of the enemy now, booooooooooooo!

[Locke]

This is really the crux of the matter:

Ironically, it may all trace back to the success he had in an emergency five-game call-up from junior by the Flames in March 2012. In his first NHL action, Baertschi scored three goals during the stint and gave long-suffering Flames fans hope there was a budding star on the way.

It also set unreasonable expectations, which Baertschi struggled to meet.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...medium=twitter

They use that stint to blame fans for expectations of Baertschi as well as management but never point the finger at the player.

Do they honestly believe that management is listening to the fans thinking: "Well, we're never going to call Baertschi up unless hes matching that offensive production from 2012 or the fans will lynch us!!!"

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sounds like never given always earned is "toxic"

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...medium=twitter

One thing he did say in the interview I found interesting is that he pointed out the system they run over there is oriented around puck possession.

... Hartley's an incredible teacher of the game and he makes sure you earn your playing time... But we're not a possession team and that's true of our farm team too. Strictly speaking on-ice effectiveness, Sven seems to feel he's being put in a better position to succeed. It's not just about minutes - he got plenty with our farm team too.

[FBI]

Its interesting but in that article they talked about a lot of things us Pro-Baertschians were talking about here as well.. Things like maybe a pat on the back and some positive reinforcement would help instead of the always tough love approach. (I still do agree with this a bit)

Anyways, hope we weren't right on that and he doesn't turn into an awesome canucks player scoring a ton on us.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Sven playing better this quickly in his new environment proves one thing and one thing only. That he clearly had entitlement issues and wasn't ready to prove himself here in our system, and felt he was being victimized.

As soon as he gets a fresh slate, he plays better. Not enough time has passed for it to be anything else. He's young, so there is time for him to correct his mental issues, but if he doesn't, he'll crumble again as soon as he hits his next stint of adversity. Too bad it required a move out for him to feel like he'd be willing to go for it again, but unless he has his ah ha moment and fixes his head, not the kind of mental toughness or response to adversity we want on this team. He's highlighting big time that he simply isn't a "Flames" type player, and given what that's started to mean the past couple of seasons, I have no issue letting him and whatever talent he has go for that reason.

[oldschoolcalgary]

hard to tell what happened unless you were actually in the room...

I like Sven and kept hoping that the proverbial light switch would go off....but it never did...

he's got to take some of the blame though; its not like Hartley never plays young kids...seems like we were cycling though kids like nobody's business during the season.

[The Fonz]

Sven playing better proves dick all. He's doing it in the AHL.

There's a lot of emotion attached to this trade, but I'd suggest we all look the other way for now, and re-visit this around game 40 next season.

[bucksmasher]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Sven playing better this quickly in his new environment proves one thing and one thing only. That he clearly had entitlement issues and wasn't ready to prove himself here in our system, and felt he was being victimized.

As soon as he gets a fresh slate, he plays better. Not enough time has passed for it to be anything else. He's young, so there is time for him to correct his mental issues, but if he doesn't, he'll crumble again as soon as he hits his next stint of adversity. Too bad it required a move out for him to feel like he'd be willing to go for it again, but unless he has his ah ha moment and fixes his head, not the kind of mental toughness or response to adversity we want on this team. He's highlighting big time that he simply isn't a "Flames" type player, and given what that's started to mean the past couple of seasons, I have no issue letting him and whatever talent he has go for that reason.

Easy Steamer, talking in that much of an absolute almost guarantees you're not right.

edit: one thing only - (means not 3 things)

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Sven playing better this quickly in his new environment proves one thing and one thing only. That he clearly had entitlement issues and wasn't ready to prove himself here in our system, and felt he was being victimized.

As soon as he gets a fresh slate, he plays better. Not enough time has passed for it to be anything else. He's young, so there is time for him to correct his mental issues, but if he doesn't, he'll crumble again as soon as he hits his next stint of adversity. Too bad it required a move out for him to feel like he'd be willing to go for it again, but unless he has his ah ha moment and fixes his head, not the kind of mental toughness or response to adversity we want on this team. He's highlighting big time that he simply isn't a "Flames" type player, and given what that's started to mean the past couple of seasons, I have no issue letting him and whatever talent he has go for that reason.

Quite the entitled opinion. It could be a great deal nnn of things, including the fact that maybe our management's reputation developing players isnt so spot-free. There clearly seems the be a top-line caliber of player that the Flames are not good at supporting their growth and/or success. Baertschi was nowhere near the point when a team should have cut bait on him when they did, the Flames are just as guilty of forcing his hand as he was bailing on thw Flames

[GioforPM]

Sven lit it up in short spurts for Addie this year as well. It's true, the test will come when he has a period of trouble.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Quite the entitled opinion. It could be a great deal nnn of things, including the fact that maybe our management's reputation developing players isnt so spot-free. There clearly seems the be a top-line caliber of player that the Flames are not good at supporting their growth and/or success. Baertschi was nowhere near the point when a team should have cut bait on him when they did, the Flames are just as guilty of forcing his hand as he was bailing on thw Flames

it was my understanding that there wasn't really any other choice for the Flames.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Quite the entitled opinion. It could be a great deal nnn of things, including the fact that maybe our management's reputation developing players isnt so spot-free. There clearly seems the be a top-line caliber of player that the Flames are not good at supporting their growth and/or success. Baertschi was nowhere near the point when a team should have cut bait on him when they did, the Flames are just as guilty of forcing his hand as he was bailing on thw Flames

He kind of was. He wasnt good enough for a full-time spot on the big club and he was going to be waiver eligible next year where we'd likely have lost him for nothing to another club.

So what do you do? I think you take what you can get. All the rest is semantics.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Baertschi was nowhere near the point when a team should have cut bait on him when they did, the Flames are just as guilty of forcing his hand as he was bailing on thw Flames

He was exactly at that point. He was a prospect who wasn't good enough to make the team, but still good enough that'd we lose him for free next year on waivers.

He also requested a trade. The Flames could not have kept him any longer.

[Yoho]

Nm

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Locke

This is really the crux of the matter:

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...medium=twitter

They use that stint to blame fans for expectations of Baertschi as well as management but never point the finger at the player.

Do they honestly believe that management is listening to the fans thinking: "Well, we're never going to call Baertschi up unless hes matching that offensive production from 2012 or the fans will lynch us!!!"

Wait till he finds out that this stint in Utica will create expectations as well.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

it was my understanding that there wasn't really any other choice for the Flames.

by cut bait, i include the fact of forcing him to a position of having to reject an RFA contract before even receiving one.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by DropIt

by cut bait, i include the fact of forcing him to a position of having to reject an RFA contract before even receiving one.

The Flames didn't force Baertschi into a position of refusing to sign a contract. He put himself in that position.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Man this subject will never die.

[Heavy Jack]

^^ You can add Drew Shore to that list. His game is increasingly enjoyable to watch and even though Raymond had one of his stronger games he is looking more and more expendable with guys like Shore and Ferland emerging from the depths of the AHL and also one of the main reasons that Sven himself was dealt. You have to have a certain kind of will it seems to crack this line-up and you can't say opportunities haven't been earned when you see so many examples listed by shermanator, Sven never truly earned it in the coaches and managements eyes and thankfully we got a 2nd out of it rather than losing him for nothing.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Dunno why fans seem to be digging for reasons to not like the guy.

The "toxic situation" described doesn't mean that our system is toxic, or that our commitment to earning ice time negatively affects or prospects imo. I realize he is in the belly of the beast now, and their writers are going to point out his strengths alongside our "failure" to nurture them, while also working on his weaknesses.

As was pointed out above, the early expectations set on Sven by management, fans, and likely himself combined with the fact our club&farm affiliate do not play a game that caters to his individual strengths seemed to grind down on the player over time and reveal what many would describe as a mentally fragile, "not quite there yet" maturity-wise prospect (myself included, to a degree). Only thing I saw differently was entitlement; to me it was frustration/disappointment developed not towards the organization itself, but at a situation that was becoming clear would never allow Sven to hit his ceiling, and also at himself as a player for being unable to adapt to change that outcome. I firmly believe he enjoyed being a Flame, and that much of the opinion around here is emotionally rooted, defending the team (which is fine, really), and also magnified by where he ends up.

For Sven as a player, the situation was either toxic, or approaching that level very soon.. That doesn't have to be a mark against this organization, nor on him as a player to the degree many would suggest.

Hopefully the kid has a stellar career (after his production falls to laughable borderline "cut from any ECHL squad" levels for as long as it takes for Vancouver to move him/allow him to find his groove elsewhere).