Russia invades Ukraine

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Pointman

So, you literally say tfat it's fair to kill me because of my posts on Calgary Puck? And you think that it's me, not you, who is a monster?

Those were all your words and positions, not mine. That's why I said "according to your morally consistent views".



This is a thought experiment to show you how you are not being consistent with your actions vs your words. If you want to stand by the position that collective punishment of a country is OK, then yes, you are advocating for you and your family to be valid targets.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

What kind of Chickens&$t comment is this? Keyboard warrior in Canada calling bravery shots on a person that fled a dictatorship who is openly using men as meat shields

What a place this can be sometimes.

No one was saying that to him until he revealed that he believes he himself is a valid target, and fled.


If you are going to hold a position like that, then ya, what's good for the goose...

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Please, just stop.

Why? It's pretty obvious that what Ukrainians did is against the Geneva convention. I have yet to see a single argument refuting it. Now if you say "screw Geneva convention Russians started this war and get all the blame", I'm with you. But you can't flip flop.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

What kind of Chickens&$t comment is this? Keyboard warrior in Canada calling bravery shots on a person that fled a dictatorship who is openly using men as meat shields.

My comment is based off his.

[Itse]

For the record, Ukrainian airspace HAS been closed down for civilian flights since the start of the war. Also, somehow it's only Russian air defense that keeps shooting down civilian planes.

Also, wtf Pointman? You're really losing the plot here.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Those were all your words and positions, not mine. That's why I said "according to your morally consistent views".


This is a thought experiment to show you how you are not being consistent with your actions vs your words. If you want to stand by the position that collective punishment of a country is OK, then yes, you are advocating for you and your family to be valid targets.

Fair enough. First off, Palestinian part is way off. Israel is fighting a defensive/survival war against terrorists (officially recognized as such). Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, I never said anything even remotely implying that they have any valid targets.

Now, Ukrainian part. It is perfectly fair to say that I do bear some responsibility for that war. This responsibility, however, is in no way big enough to justify hunting me down and kill me in Israel. If I was accidentally killed by a blast that killed Kirillov in my building, you might have a point.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Pointman

So, you literally say tfat it's fair to kill me because of my posts on Calgary Puck? And you think that it's me, not you, who is a monster?

Please take your genocide support and weird takes to the Israel/Gaza thread, that thread has been a dumpster fire since the beginning, while this one only started going off the rails once you got here.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Itse

For the record, Ukrainian airspace HAS been closed down for civilian flights since the start of the war. Also, somehow it's only Russian air defense that keeps shooting down civilian planes.

Also, wtf Pointman? You're really losing the plot here.

This discussion is deeply rooted in Hamas thread and might indeed look like that if you don't follow it.

The main premise is that the arguments that pro-Gaza posters use appear to be weak if applied to Ukraine-Russia war, and as such should be discarded.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Pointman

This discussion is deeply rooted in Hamas thread and might indeed look like that if you don't follow it.

The main premise is that the arguments that pro-Gaza posters use appear to be weak if applied to Ukraine-Russia war, and as such should be discarded.

Please just go away. Touch grass.

You're acting insane.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Itse

For the record, Ukrainian airspace HAS been closed down for civilian flights since the start of the war. Also, somehow it's only Russian air defense that keeps shooting down civilian planes.

The reference was to the Boeing shot down by Russian proxy in Ukrainian airspace. The airspace was not closed. Also, the point was to display that such argument is wrong.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Fair enough. First off, Palestinian part is way off. Israel is fighting a defensive/survival war against terrorists (officially recognized as such). Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, I never said anything even remotely implying that they have any valid targets.

Now, Ukrainian part. It is perfectly fair to say that I do bear some responsibility for that war. This responsibility, however, is in no way big enough to justify hunting me down and kill me in Israel. If I was accidentally killed by a blast that killed Kirillov in my building, you might have a point.

I thought Israel was fighting a [de facto] nation and your justification for Israel's genocidal killing spree was gloves are off nation to [de facto] nation. Now that [de facto] nation is actually a terrorist organization? Wouldn't that mean Israel shouldn't be destroying a [de facto] nation, but should instead be punishing the terrorists and sparing the innocent citizens of the [de facto] nation?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Why? It's pretty obvious that what Ukrainians did is against the Geneva convention. I have yet to see a single argument refuting it. Now if you say "screw Geneva convention Russians started this war and get all the blame", I'm with you. But you can't flip flop.

Dude, the Ukrainians are fighting a defensive war, which means reaching beyond their borders and targeting enemy infrastructure in SELF DEFENSE. They didn't even shoot the plane down, and you say they are guilty of it. Who shot the plane down? Russia. Who's guilty? Russia. This isn't ####ing complicated.

[burn_this_city]

MH17 was shot down by Russian army regulars. The idea that separatists magically dusted off a BUK they found in a shed is absurd, the offending unit was photographed fleeing back into Russia. There was never an organic uprising in Eastern Ukraine, it was astroturfed by the FSB, to destabilize the country after Maidan.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Pointman

The reference was to the Boeing shot down by Russian proxy in Ukrainian airspace. The airspace was not closed. Also, the point was to display that such argument is wrong.

Again, you are acting insane.

I understand that you think you are making rational arguments, but you're not.

You're just being crazy.

Also, people.just please stop "debating" him, you know this isn't a debate worth having.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Dud, the Ukrainians are fighting a defensive war, which means reaching beyond their borders and targeting enemy infrastructure in SELF DEFENSE. They didn't even shoot the plane down, and you say they are guilty of it. Who shot the plane down? Russia. Who's guilty? Russia. This isn't ####ing complicated.

Every word you say here is absolutely correct. I'm fully behind it.

Now apply the same logic to Hamas war.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

MH17 was shot down by Russian army regulars. The idea that separatists magically dusted off a BUK they found in a shed is absurd, the offending unit was photographed fleeing back into Russia. There was never an organic uprising in Eastern Ukraine, it was astroturfed by the FSB, to destabilize the country after Maidan.

The "uprising" was set up by FSB. The shot was fired by a proxy, most likely. It was fired from Ukrainian territory controlled by proxies, before the open war there were few, if any, Russian regulars there. The blame is on Russia for sure. I never said otherwise. The point was that "they didn't close the airspace so they are to blame" argument is weak.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Itse

Again, you are acting insane.

I understand that you think you are making rational arguments, but you're not.

You're just being crazy.

Also, people.just please stop "debating" him, you know this isn't a debate worth having.

No, I think it's about you not understanding what I'm saying. Which may be, at least in part, my fault. My point is exactly that blaming Ukraine, instead of Russia, is ridiculous, and so is blaming Israel, instead of Hamas.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Pointman

No, I think it's about you not understanding what I'm saying. Which may be, at least in part, my fault. My point is exactly that blaming Ukraine, instead of Russia, is ridiculous, and so is blaming Israel, instead of Hamas.

The issue is at some point in the Israel, Lebanon, Gaza, conflict Israel became the aggressor nation and you don’t recognize that.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I thought Israel was fighting a [de facto] nation and your justification for Israel's genocidal killing spree was gloves are off nation to [de facto] nation. Now that [de facto] nation is actually a terrorist organization? Wouldn't that mean Israel shouldn't be destroying a [de facto] nation, but should instead be punishing the terrorists and sparing the innocent citizens of the [de facto] nation?

Hezbollah are not in Gaza, and Hezbollah is surely a terrorist organization.

Regarding Gaza war and Hamas, Hamas is a ruling party. They won the election, and subsequently cancelled all the following elections. They are both a terrorist organization and the ruling party of Gaza.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by GGG

The issue is at some point in the Israel, Lebanon, Gaza, conflict Israel became the aggressor nation and you don’t recognize that.

Correct, I don't recognize that. Israel is not the aggressor as long, as Gazans still hold hostages. I could hear you if hostages were released and Israel still kept bombing Gaza.

Same with Ukraine. Once Russians moved the troops in, all rules are off. Ukraine can nuke Moscow and it's a fair game for all I care. Trying to blame Ukraine for that is ridiculous - which is exactly my point. Until Russia surrenders, Ukraine can do more or less everything to them and that's fair. Same with Israel and Gaza.