His 2.7 points per 60 at 5v5 for the last 30 games were actually right in line with his previous three seasons in Florida. (204 GP - 2.7 points per 60 at 5v5).
His 18 points in 30 games was second in the team behind only Toffoli (19) and would have ranked T-31st in the NHL.
He produced like a 1st liner for the final third of the season and was still playing better defensively - he had actually started to figure out how to produce while still playing how Sutter wanted him to play. The problem was his Powerplay production was terrible, more because of usage though and being used on the 2nd unit.
I'm hoping that even with the extra freedom to create, some of the good defensive practices will stay with him.
__________________
"By Grabthar's hammer ... what a savings."
The Following User Says Thank You to Harry Lime For This Useful Post:
I see he improved, and you could see his points per game improve as the season went on.
T-31st in the NHL in the last 30 games for PPG 5v5.
Is that worth $10.5MM per season for 8 more years in today's NHL?
Maybe...maybe not.
2.7 points per 60 was his pace in Florida at 5v5 - so my point is that what you should expect for him on average.
From 2019-2022 with the Panthers his 2.7 point per 60 would have ranked him 8th in the NHL for players that played at least 2000 minutes. Tied with David Pastrnak, & Leon Draisaitl.
So while that's production may not look super impressive over a 30 game stretch with 18 points, over a longer period of time that type of 5v5 production does get you about that much money.
If we look at 2020-2023 only 7 forwards produce at a clip of over 2.7 points per 60 at 5v5 (minimum 2000 minutes played).
Outside of Robertson all of those players will make over $9.5M next year. And Even with his bad season Huberdeau ranks 20th in the NHL at 2.53 points per 60 at 5v5 over that span from 2020-2023.
So my point is more that there probably would be a team that would say... for three years he produced at a top 10 pace in the NHL at 5v5 (2.7 Points per 60)...then he had a terrible 50 game stretch after a shock trade with a new more demanding defensive coach (1.87 points per 60)...and then for the final 30 games of the season he was kind of back to his previous rate of production (2.7 points per 60).
So yeah a team looking for a buy low opportunity might go...yeah I'm going to bet he's the player he was for 204 games from 2019-2022 and then the final 30 games of 2023 and not the 50 games right after the trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime
I'm hoping that even with the extra freedom to create, some of the good defensive practices will stay with him.
This is the biggest thing to me too. I don't want him to throw away everything Sutter was preaching this year - some of the defensive improvements were needed for him and he did start to figure it out more in the final 30 games.
Hopefully he can produce even more with a bit more freedom, but keeps some of the strong defensive traits that Sutter would have been preaching.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 05-04-2023 at 01:31 PM.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
2.7 points per 60 was his pace in Florida at 5v5 - so my point is that what you should expect for him on average.
From 2019-2022 with the Panthers his 2.7 point per 60 would have ranked him 8th in the NHL for players that played at least 2000 minutes. Tied with David Pastrnak, & Leon Draisaitl.
So while that's production may not look super impressive over a 30 game stretch with 18 points, over a longer period of time that type of 5v5 production does get you about that much money.
If we look at 2020-2023 only 7 forwards produce at a clip of over 2.7 points per 60 at 5v5 (minimum 2000 minutes played).
Outside of Robertson all of those players will make over $9.5M next year. And Even with his bad season Huberdeau ranks 20th in the NHL at 2.53 points per 60 at 5v5 over that span from 2020-2023.
So my point is more that there probably would be a team that would say... for three years he produced at a top 10 pace in the NHL at 5v5 (2.7 Points per 60)...then he had a terrible 50 game stretch after a shock trade with a new more demanding defensive coach (1.87 points per 60)...and then for the final 30 games of the season he was kind of back to his previous rate of production (2.7 points per 60).
So yeah a team looking for a buy low opportunity might go...yeah I'm going to bet he's the player he was for 204 games from 2019-2022 and then the final 30 games of 2023 and not the 50 games right after the trade.
This is the biggest thing to me too. I don't want him to throw away everything Sutter was preaching this year - some of the defensive improvements were needed for him and he did start to figure it out more in the final 30 games.
Hopefully he can produce even more with a bit more freedom, but keeps some of the strong defensive traits that Sutter would have been preaching.
But scoring had gone up hugely recently, so comparing 2023 numbers to 2020 numbers is counter productive..
At the end of the day, producing at a T-31 pace won't get you close to $10.5MM.
You can spin it any way you want to, but Hubby had a mid-50 point season. While there is reason to expect improvement for sure, he still needs to make those improvements next season. Ad how far will he improve to? 60 points? 65 points? Hopefully a minimum 70 points I would think is the low bar we'd want to hope for.
The Following User Says Thank You to The Cobra For This Useful Post:
But scoring had gone up hugely recently, so comparing 2023 numbers to 2020 numbers is counter productive..
At the end of the day, producing at a T-31 pace won't get you close to $10.5MM.
You can spin it any way you want to, but Hubby had a mid-50 point season. While there is reason to expect improvement for sure, he still needs to make those improvements next season. Ad how far will he improve to? 60 points? 65 points? Hopefully a minimum 70 points I would think is the low bar we'd want to hope for.
Yeah, he has to be top 15 in scoring to make his contract anywhere near worth it.
You listen to what Jim Montgomery says after the Bruins lost (1:30 mark), and what Tkachuk is doing in this playoffs makes the Flames inability to keep Tkachuk here a huge failure. Yes, Tkachuk was always going to try and get to free agency as soon as possible, but teams that let superstars like this walk at age 25 are doomed to live in mediocrity. There's so much talk about how you need top picks to win a cup as a reason to rebuild, well that doesn't matter much if you can't keep the players here during their most productive years. There's always been points of frustration with this team and the lack of success, but nothing has made me become more apathetic about this team than the last 12 months. It is going to take a lot of effort from the new GM/coach/players to make me care about watching/attending as many games as I have in the past.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to atb For This Useful Post:
Yeah, he has to be top 15 in scoring to make his contract anywhere near worth it.
Well it depends...if your team allows fewer goals against then points are more valuable.
Flames top scorer had 73 points but as a team they had more points than half the league with terrible goaltending. I don't think anyone would complain about PPG with 110 point team or something.
__________________
GFG
The Following User Says Thank You to dino7c For This Useful Post:
Adam Proteau of The Hockey News wrote an article entitled,"Three Blockbuster Trades for Six Eliminated NHL Teams", where he throws out the following outlandish trade ideas:
To Ottawa: G Connor Hellebuyck
To Winnipeg: F Shane Pinto, F Ridly Greig
To Vancouver: F Alexis Lafreniere, D K'Andre Miller
To NYR: F Brock Boeser, 1st round pick.
To Boston: F Elias Lindholm
To Calgary: F Taylor Hall
Am I missing something how does Hall for Lindholm make any sense?
Hall is older, scores less, much worse defensively, plays the less important position and isn't on a great deal. What is the incentive for Calgary?
He also is a left shot, left wing so doesn't fit with Hubredeau and forces us to probably move somebody over to play out of position on the right again.
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Spurs For This Useful Post:
What's the situation with Hellebuyck? Is the consensus that he wants to be traded, or won't re-sign?
I think it's more of Winnipeg likely considering to move Helle while his value is at his highest. One year left, a team would probably like to gamble on that. Quite a few teams are looking for a goalie, namely Buffalo, LA, Ottawa, possibly Toronto (if they are unhappy with Samsonov/Murray as the broken goaltenders and zero faith in Woll), Pittsburgh, etc.
I look at the Kuemper trade, and I think that is a good base and a little more added on top of that. Goalies' value are always a crapshoot and so volatile, but if your team is not doing so hot in the playoffs and you're going nowhere (but your goalie is good), you're likely going to get a good return for him.
Location: I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs
Am I missing something how does Hall for Lindholm make any sense?
Hall is older, scores less, much worse defensively, plays the less important position and isn't on a great deal. What is the incentive for Calgary?
He also is a left shot, left wing so doesn't fit with Hubredeau and forces us to probably move somebody over to play out of position on the right again.
It would be our “the trade is one for one”
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to All In Good Time For This Useful Post:
What's the situation with Hellebuyck? Is the consensus that he wants to be traded, or won't re-sign?
He's probably in line for Vasilevskiy money and that may be too much for the Jets who look like an organization staring at a bit of a re-tool or rebuild.
Am I missing something how does Hall for Lindholm make any sense?
Hall is older, scores less, much worse defensively, plays the less important position and isn't on a great deal. What is the incentive for Calgary?
He also is a left shot, left wing so doesn't fit with Hubredeau and forces us to probably move somebody over to play out of position on the right again.
Looks to me like Proteau just noticed that Hall is from Calgary or something.
There's really no one on the Bruins that fits for the Flames.
Adam Proteau of The Hockey News wrote an article entitled,"Three Blockbuster Trades for Six Eliminated NHL Teams", where he throws out the following outlandish trade ideas:
To Ottawa: G Connor Hellebuyck
To Winnipeg: F Shane Pinto, F Ridly Greig
To Vancouver: F Alexis Lafreniere, D K'Andre Miller
To NYR: F Brock Boeser, 1st round pick.
To Boston: F Elias Lindholm
To Calgary: F Taylor Hall
Remove Boston and Vancouver and you have something interesting.
Lindholm for Lafreniere and Miller
Slight add on our end and it's close IMO.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Monahammer For This Useful Post:
