The Blue Jays: 2009 Season Thread - Page 73 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

flambers · 08-07-2009, 02:18 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4384253

"A waiver claim has been placed on Toronto Blue Jays right fielder Alex Rios, according to major league baseball sources."

Caged Great · 08-07-2009, 02:22 PM

if they were smart, they'd just let him go.

Saint Troy · 08-07-2009, 02:23 PM

Let him go as fast as you can JP, any GM taking that contract is an idiot.

Pagal4321 · 08-07-2009, 02:42 PM

How come NO ONE else have reported this story at all....not even guys who are with the team right now?!

Smells fishy to me.

flambers · 08-07-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

How come NO ONE else have reported this story at all....not even guys who are with the team right now?!

Smells fishy to me.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/200..._rios_waivers/

Sportsnet is now showing the same story.

As for the claim the Waiver wire in baseball is always confusing...

I would bet the Jays site will not report this until the Jays officially decide what they are going to do (i..e the story lists three options)... assuming this story is true and I sure hope it is.

ShaolinFlame · 08-07-2009, 02:51 PM

According to fan graphs Rios is actually worth the money he is paid. I don't know where this culture of Rios Contract = Wells contract comes from. The Rios contract is not what is hurting this team, and to loose the only plus arm the jays have out there is not a good thing....

Gozer · 08-07-2009, 02:52 PM

Rios is on waivers, was claimed by another team, and I'll bet someone my signature for a year that he doesn't go anywhere. Baseball waivers are weird.

flambers · 08-07-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinFlame

According to fan graphs Rios is actually worth the money he is paid. I don't know where this culture of Rios Contract = Wells contract comes from. The Rios contract is not what is hurting this team, and to loose the only plus arm the jays have out there is not a good thing....

Here is a few key sentences from the ESPN story... personally I just can not see Rios being a player that is worth ~ 12-14M a season.

"Part of the reason why the Blue Jays had considered trading Roy Halladay is the lack of payroll flexibility into the future, created in part by their obligation to Rios."

"Rios is making $5.9 million this season, and he is set to earn salaries of $9.7 million in 2010, $12 million in 2011, $12 million in 2012, $12.5 million in 2013, and $12.5 million in 2014.

The Jays hold a club option on Rios of $13.5 million for 2015, with a $1 million buyout"

Sylvanfan · 08-07-2009, 02:58 PM

The way Baseball waivers work is a bit complicated. Basically the Jays have the option to pull him off waivers if they chose. Often it's a way of finding out if there is any trade interest in the player. But who knows...if Rogers is that serious about cutting costs, maybe they'll let him go for nothing.

carom · 08-07-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The way Baseball waivers work is a bit complicated. Basically the Jays have the option to pull him off waivers if they chose. Often it's a way of finding out if there is any trade interest in the player. But who knows...if Rogers is that serious about cutting costs, maybe they'll let him go for nothing.

as per the article, it states: make a trade, walk away from the player, or

"• They could pull him back from waivers, and keep him for themselves the rest of this season."

Does this mean that they have to trade him in the off season or re-negotiate a deal?

JayP · 08-07-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

if they were smart, they'd just let him go.

No, they'd do that if they were stupid. Rios isn't a bargain, but he's earned his contract.

I don't know where this whole Rios = Wells stuff comes from, but it's hilariously ignorant.

JayP · 08-07-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carom

as per the article, it states: make a trade, walk away from the player, or

"• They could pull him back from waivers, and keep him for themselves the rest of this season."

Does this mean that they have to trade him in the off season or re-negotiate a deal?

It means the Blue Jays can talk trade with and only with the team that made the waiver claim (before the waiver trade deadline of August 31).

ShaolinFlame · 08-07-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Here is a few key sentences from the ESPN story... personally I just can not see Rios being a player that is worth ~ 12-14M a season.

"Part of the reason why the Blue Jays had considered trading Roy Halladay is the lack of payroll flexibility into the future, created in part by their obligation to Rios."

"Rios is making $5.9 million this season, and he is set to earn salaries of $9.7 million in 2010, $12 million in 2011, $12 million in 2012, $12.5 million in 2013, and $12.5 million in 2014.

The Jays hold a club option on Rios of $13.5 million for 2015, with a $1 million buyout"

That would be the only reason this makes any sense to me. If losing Rios = keeping Roy, then sign me up. I still think it would be a more prudent move to try and unload Vernon, even if you have to ship out cash to do it. Rios is still a lot younger than Vernon too. Rios has potential to be a legit #3 man. Wells has the potential to explode his hamstring.

Although it seems to me that the two of them hanging together just encourages this nonchalant attitude they have shown all year. Move one, and I guarantee the other improves offensively.

Caged Great · 08-07-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

No, they'd do that if they were stupid. Rios isn't a bargain, but he's earned his contract.

I don't know where this whole Rios = Wells stuff comes from, but it's hilariously ignorant.

Rios has 6 years left that all pay him 10 million plus.

If that contract is gone, it could pave the way for the jays to sign other more important players - aka Halladay, or players that can make the jays a contender.

Right now Rios is a #6 type of player in a decent lineup that is making 10 million dollars, which is quite ridiculous.

He is decent in the field, but you can find better options out there.

ShaolinFlame · 08-07-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Vernon Wells contract is awful. He’s owed $12.5 million next year, $23 million in 2011, and then $21 million per season from 2012-2014. He’s locked up for five years after this one for the price of $97 million. Since the beginning of 2007, Wells has earned a grand total of +1.2 wins in 1,488 plate appearances, or about +0.5 wins per season. Yech. $20 million a year for a guy with a league average bat and defense that belongs in LF/RF? That might be the worst contract in baseball. He’s giving Barry Zito a run for his money, at the very least. The Wells extension has been nothing short of a total disaster.
Alex Rios, though? He’s guaranteed $59 million from 2010 to 2014 or $71 million through 2015, depending on if his option year at the end of the contract is exercised. That’s $40 million less over the same time period, or $8 million per year less in annual average salary. And Rios has been nothing short of fantastic the last two years - he was worth +4.6 wins in 2007 and +5.5 wins last year. And he’s got the exact same skillset as he had then.
...

July 9, 2009. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/rios-wells

Cut the ignorance!!!

SteveToms · 08-07-2009, 04:16 PM

Who replaces Rios in RF?

Sylvanfan · 08-07-2009, 04:22 PM

If the Jays could figure out how to transfer what they pay Wells as part of a package to keep Rios and get Wells out of town it would benefit them a lot more.

By that I mean agree to pay the difference between Rios and Wells salary to the team who takes on Wells and keep Rios. Having Rios play Centerfield and produce what he does for the salary slot they're paying Wells is a loss, but it's an upgrade on having Wells do it. Better than losing Rios for nothing, and having Wells fill that slot and hoping to find someone else to produce in Rios void.

Gozer · 08-07-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveToms

Who replaces Rios in RF?

Snider, hypothetically.

JayP · 08-07-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Rios has 6 years left that all pay him 10 million plus.

If that contract is gone, it could pave the way for the jays to sign other more important players - aka Halladay, or players that can make the jays a contender.

Right now Rios is a #6 type of player in a decent lineup that is making 10 million dollars, which is quite ridiculous.

He is decent in the field, but you can find better options out there.

Who are these better options? That's the problem with internet forum analysis - it's always dump this guy and find someone better. But if there's no one out there that's better then what happens after you dump Rios?

Rios is an above-average hitter, but one of the best defensive outfielders in the game. That's where his value lies. If he goes, the Jays are looking at an OF of Wells, Lind, Snider, and Bautista next season. That's downright ugly defensively.

Let's remember it's not a foregone conclusion that Halladay re-signs in Toronto if the money is there. There will be a couple of teams who will throw crazy money at Halladay - money the Jays may have to match to keep him and money that could end up killing this team in years to come. If Halladay gets $20M+ a season, the Jays will be close to $42-44M a season for Halladay and Wells alone.

There will also be the teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, Phillies, and Yankees that are clearly better options for winning a World Series and the Jays simply don't have a fair shot.

It would be an outright disaster to toss Rios away to free up salary and then end up losing Doc anyways.

moon · 08-07-2009, 04:31 PM

I know that it is baseball and any stat geek can manipulate the numbers to make Varitek look like a combo of Ted Williams and Babe Ruth, but I find it particularly difficult to believe a site that has this line:

Quote:

And Rios has been nothing short of fantastic the last two years

This is where I think some stats geeks get caught up in their made up numbers and totally ignore what you see by actually watching the games.

There is no way that Rios has been close to fantastic, let alone nothing short of fantastic. And for long stretches he is barely above average.