[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Right, because money was never a factor. Johnny wanted to live out in the eastern time zone for his family. I actually respect that over say a guy who just chases after the all mighty dollar.

I know us Flames fans don’t like that he didn’t pick us, but it may be a blessing in disguise. The Oilers have become supremely better over night and I’m not sure the Flames can compete against them over the long haul. Time to rebuild, although this organization just seems to refuse to want to go in that direction.

OMG how are the Oilers better!?

Cambell/Skinner?

They are the same team with worse D and probably worse forward depth.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I think some are making excuses for Johnny.

Every one and their dog can acknowledge that he had a better shot at striving in the game here on the best line in hockey under a top coach, and a cap spending ownership.

It wasn't a "risk", it was the opposite of that. The only thing he risked is the risk he may regret it later if Columbus continues the way they have been for many years.


Why make excuses for the guy?

He and many generations of his family are set for life financially

He hits a peice of rubber around with a stick for work

maybe playing "for the best coach on the best line with rich owners" isnt as important to him as literally any other personal reason he has. Maybe it's not as important to him as it is to you, or living in the situation he doesnt see it the same as you. I can't fathom why you are so blind to this

[cgy-sk-import]

Absolute garbage. Leads the team on for the last 6 months and makes it seem like he wants to stay... "emotional decision, blah blah blah"... Day of signing "Columbus.. where's that? Hmm looks like it's not in Calgary so .. Oh well whatever I guess I'll sign there".

I usually just read and don't chime in much, but I personally will be making some noise the next time "John" comes to Calgary, and not in the good way.

Good bye "John", don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Absolutely, garbage. And that's my opinion.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

For Treliving and the Flames to not have set a self imposed deadline on this in advance of the real deadline in unforgivable. Gross incompetency that has left the franchise swinging in the wind.

I have been very critical of Treliving for the last 2-3 seasons and allowed him to win me back over somewhat with his moves last offseason. This has just completely undone all of that goodwill and exposed him once again as a sheep in wolfs clothing.

He's just out of his breadth as an NHL general manager.

The real deadline was July 2021. It wasn’t a good trade market for a sub-PPG left wing then. And JG was assuring the team and fans he was willing to do a deal. And then acted like it as well.

Incompetence? Nah

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The 8th year is still an unknown. I'd look at the difference in upfront money first, especially in the current environment.

I guarantee it’s not 10.5 m at age 36

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Your turn to take a bit of a leap. COLUMBUS!?

Prob best you and DJflames stop posting in this thread.

Is Zadarov not a man for not taking 4X$4 to take re-sign back with us?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think it's just because it feels like it makes sense to be spurned for Philly, New Jersey, or New York. Less sense to be spurned for Columbus.

Never makes sense when you ex leaves you for somebody that you think is uglier than you.

It's a fair point though:

Wells Fargo Center (PHI) is a 44 minute drive to Salem, NJ

Belmont Park (NYI) is a ~3 hour drive to Salem, NJ

Prudential Center (NJD) is a ~2 hour drive to Salem, NJ

Nationwide Arena (CBJ) is a ~8 hour drive to Salem, NJ

Philly was clearly the preferred destination but Fletcher screwed up and went and gave Tony DeAngelo $5M for some reason and then refused to trade JVR.

But really NYI, NJD, and CBJ probably don't have a lot of difference between them. And maybe Johnny just really didn't want to live in the New York metro area.

Philly is a big city too...but it's not New York.

Yeah it just feels like a complete overreaction because it’s Columbus of all places. The way I look at it, Johnny didn’t choose Columbus over Calgary. We weren’t even an option at that point. If anything, NJ and NYI probably have more reason to be mad.

I don’t know if it was Johnny’s Philly upbringing that’s keeping him from playing for his rivals, but whatever it is, I don’t think it was ever a shot at us. Johnny was great from game #1 here and was everything to this team. I hope everyone can put down the pitchforks long enough to remember all the good he did for this team/community.

[Hack&Lube]

https://www.nhl.com/bluejackets/news...ng/c-334979276

Doesn't sound at all like it was a snap decision, sounds like Gaudreau himself reached out to the Columbus team and let them know it was one of his true primary destinations. Why he couldn't tell Tre or the Flames org this so they could properly asset management is pure selfishness.

On top of that, in the words of general manager Jarmo Kekalainen, Gaudreau's signing wasn't simply the case of a player with no other options.

...

"He told us this was one of his true primary destinations," Kekalainen said Wednesday evening. "We were like, 'OK, wow, is this real?'

The more I think about this, more it does seem true that Columbus was one of his true list of targets. Johnny posted on social media that he had talked to Cam Atkinson, Dalton Prout, and his lifelong friend Eric Robinson (Buddy's brother) and they all had been telling him to go to Columbus and that he would love it there. I think this definitely has to do with the fact that it's a quieter market where he can be a professional athlete and also have a quieter family life without the constant pressure. Maybe that's why the other players also recommended it to him.

The part that bothers me is this makes it clear he has a list of "true primary destinations" and if Calgary wasn't on this, this is just a really bad faith negotiation that messed up our asset management. If he was torn, that's fine, that's human but they need to come up with a solution that works for both parties. I mentioned in the BT thread that a compromised would have been for the Flames to give him a generous offer like 8x11 but tell Gaudreau it expires on draft day as we need a definite answer to make the right moves. In business offers always have expiration dates.

[Number 39]

I wasn't as emotionally invested in Johnny as many here were as I always believed that it would be hard to win building around a winger.....Particularly a small, nonphysical one.

Having said that, I don't begrudge him choosing not to commit to Calgary....I don't understand why he chose Columbus but that's not my business. I lived in Calgary for decades and moved for career reasons. There are really nice places to live in any major city and honestly most have a better climate than Calgary.

The part that annoys me is that he was allowed to seemingly paralyze the whole Flames organization from making moves. Either he wasn't up front with them or they mishandled this or maybe both. I suspect there is lots of blame to go around. It was clear from Tree's presser that he was really biting his tongue and seemed baffled. This organization needs to both be more ruthless with assets while treating them well while they are here. As far as Sutter goes, I really don't care if he liked or didn't like Sutter. IMO Sutter has proven far more as a coach in terms of winning than Johnny ever has.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I think some are making excuses for Johnny.

Every one and their dog can acknowledge that he had a better shot at striving in the game here on the best line in hockey under a top coach, and a cap spending ownership.

It wasn't a "risk", it was the opposite of that. The only thing he risked is the risk he may regret it later if Columbus continues the way they have been for many years.


Why make excuses for the guy?

This I can agree with. This whole situation start to finish, while it looked initially like a brutal mess up by his agent, might just have been what Johnny wanted all along as his plan B to Philly.

What this tells me is that Johnny’s priority might just have been anonymity above being close to family even. Nothing wrong with that from my perspective, but it also makes me a little glad the Flames didn’t shell out 80 million to someone who’s priority isn’t necessarily winning.

The Flames offered Gaudreau the best chance to win, with Sutter as coach and a very good roster in a weaker division. Johnny left to go somewhere he wouldn’t be recognized and can live the lifestyle him and his family want.

Perhaps Kadri as a plan B is what the a Flames should be after anyway. Someone who wants to win so badly that he turned a 6 week injury recovery into 2 weeks and scored a massive goal in game 4 of the Stanley cup final.

I’m starting to see Gaudreau leaving as a positive

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by activeStick

At least Fox made it clear to Treliving he wasn't signing and Treliving proved that he'll act if faced with this and will make the team better for it, getting a top pair dman and #1 200 foot center in return. Perhaps Gross and Johnny saw what happened to Fox and didn't want to risk getting traded to whichever team would give the best deal to the Flames as it might be undesirable or too far from home for Johnny.

So Adam Fox is the hero now because he is upfront

Gaudreau is now - "You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain"

[_Q_]

I get the close to home thing. In fact I did the exact same thing when I had my second child. I moved from Washington DC, back to Calgary for less money. I probably would have moved to Edmonton, Lethbridge, Saskatoon or whatever if there was nothing for me in Calgary at the time. You can't put a price on having your kids grow up around their grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins, as well as having that support system for your wife while she tries to cope with being a new mom. I don't know what it's like as a professional athlete, where you have millions of dollars at your disposal and are away from home half the time, but I imagine being away from home is a big reason why it's important for his wife to have her support system around her.

Each individual is also different. Maybe being with family is important for Johnny and his wife. To some, it might not be a big deal. Maybe they just prefer the lifestyle in America and they couldn't stand the idea of having their kids go to Canadian schools... that was actually part of the reason I moved back to Canada. Maybe he likes guns. Maybe he hates the weather here. Maybe he just wanted a change, just as some of us quit our jobs after 8 years for a seemingly lateral move. Who actually knows.

All that said, it doesn't mean that Johnny handled this well. I think he just strung the team along for the last few months and I'm fairly annoyed at how this all went down.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

In hindsight it looks like Gross handled this a lot worse than Treliving did.

It's not like the Flames are getting much value back even if they have a firm deadline and can trade his rights. All that means is we know Gaudreau's status earlier and the Flames maybe get a 3rd back for his rights.

It looks like the mistake they may have made was not letting him talk to other teams to gauge his market, and let him do that while you still have the advantage of the 8th year. Oilers did that with Kane and it appears it worked in their favour.

But that's with the benefit of hindsight.

If they let him do that and he goes and signs for 7 x $12M somewhere else then I'd be blasting him for letting Gaudreau talk to teams and giving away his negotiating leverage.

But with hindsight we can see now that the market was soft and that maybe he stays here if he knows the best offer out there is 7 x $9.75 from Columbus. that the Flyers don't even come to the table, and that the Flames offer is the best by $15M.

There's no hindsight needed to know that the Flames would have certainly benefitted big time from knowing it was over 5 days, two weeks or however many days in advance of yesterday's deadline. They would have at least had time to prepare for the events of yesterday and possibly make a signing or trades that benefit the franchise. Instead they were all clearly shell shocked, otherwise they would have done something notable to start patching holes.

As you say, a deadline may have also worked in Calgary's favour if Gaudreau was able to come back to the table after a week of testing the waters. All in all it was bush league from the Flames and somewhat Gaudreau's camp. When you are the one standing to lose the asset as Treliving was, you need to take the reins and I don't see any instance of that happening. It certainly should have been the case last summer.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by HitterD

This I can agree with. This whole situation start to finish, while it looked initially like a brutal mess up by his agent, might just have been what Johnny wanted all along as his plan B to Philly.

What this tells me is that Johnny’s priority might just have been anonymity above being close to family even. Nothing wrong with that from my perspective, but it also makes me a little glad the Flames didn’t shell out 80 million to someone who’s priority isn’t necessarily winning.

The Flames offered Gaudreau the best chance to win, with Sutter as coach and a very good roster in a weaker division. Johnny left to go somewhere he wouldn’t be recognized and can live the lifestyle him and his family want.

Perhaps Kadri as a plan B is what the a Flames should be after anyway. Someone who wants to win so badly that he turned a 6 week injury recovery into 2 weeks and scored a massive goal in game 4 of the Stanley cup final.

I’m starting to see Gaudreau leaving as a positive

signing 32 year old kadri to a massive contract will not be a positive

[Buff]

All this talk about Johnny not being man is really lame and toxic.

He made a decision that he felt was best for him, his wife and their unborn child. Just because you don't feel it is the right decision doesn't make him any less of a man.

We don't know the true external factors in his decisions other than one work. Family. How much did his wife influence where he played? How much did his parents influence where he played? How much weight did he put into their opinions and feelings? We know none of that. We just know that he values family.

Agree with Johnny or not, that is fine. Be upset that he is leaving. That is fine. Saying he isn't a man, or a real man is really just a temper tantrum because you didn't get your way on something you had no control over.

Do I think Johnny made the right choice? In terms of career? No. In terms of family? I don't know. Did he just not want to be in Canada? Maybe he just wanted to be closer to the east and not in Canada. We don't know specifically what he wanted.

What I do feel is that Johnny made a decision but wasn't fully informed on the market or the situations of each team closest to his home and that caused him to paint himself into a corner. If we want to label him I think uninformed or misinformed would be better than "not a man".

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I don't get the closer to home thing, I just don't. Again, might be a flaw in me. Again, from a wife point of view.

My husband could be making millions in Zimbabwe and it would be fine with me.

It's not a flaw. If he's going to be that 'breadwinner' for the household, its easier to support him when he's being the leader of his own life and taking the bull by the horns.

Many aren't going to understand this perspective because it comes across as outdated on the surface, but underneath it is how it is in a lot of ways. Those who command respect strive to be the best they can, whatever the direction may be.

I used to have the same perspective as many here and I would've called you out as well as even myself! Then I learned a lot about psychology and human behavior. And I realized the importance of putting your goals and passions first and it turned my perspective on life upside down. The way we are wired is actually quite different from what society tell us is correct/incorrect these days. As much as on the surface those politically correct ideas make sense and are easy to agree with.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

There's no hindsight needed to know that the Flames would have certainly benefitted big time from knowing it was over 5 days, two weeks or however many days in advance of yesterday's deadline. They would have at least had time to prepare for the events of yesterday and possible make a signing or trades that benefit the franchise. Instead they were all clearly shell shocked and lost otherwise they would have done something notable.

As you say, a deadline may have also worked in Calgary's favour if Gaudreau was able to come back to the table after a week of testing the waters. All in all it was bush league from the Flames and somewhat Gaudreau's camp. When you are the one standing to lose the asset, you need to take the reins and I don't see any instance of that happening.

A trade with who? nobody wanted his rights, basically nobody wanted him UFA.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by littlereddevil

I feel this was a major reason why Gaudreau chose to sign with whatever American NHL team would pay him similarly to Calgary's reported offer:

https://twitter.com/MattBarnaby3636/...16728353415168

Let's be honest, it's extremely difficult for Canadian NHL teams to compete with American markets.

I'm willing to bet that the Tkachuks (yes, Brady too),

This tweet just says playing in Canada means nothing as an American kid. What's the basis of that? There are many Americans that have played and kept roots here in Canada, or married Canadian wives.

Because of that, the Tkachuks are half Canadian and his grandparents and extended family are all in Winnipeg, etc.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Do you think Tre penny pinched him? After the poor Flames season? Still not that poor for him, 49 points in 56 games. Yeah, I don't know how you let a player get to UFA.

Based on Treliving’s history, I would say he definitely tried to pinch him back in 2021. I don’t necessarily blame him based on Gaudreau’s previous couple of seasons, but it was very obvious to me that Johnny was going to have a break out year in 2022, so I know I would’ve met his demands.

Sadly, only Treliving knows what really went down last year in their negotiations. Could he had Johnny at $9M x 8 prior to the start of the season? I don’t know and we’ll probably never know. If he could’ve, I’m sure he’s probably kicking himself now.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

It's not a flaw. If he's going to be that 'breadwinner' for the household, its easier to support him when he's being the leader of his own life and taking the bull by the horns.

Many aren't going to understand this perspective because it comes across as outdated on the surface, but underneath it is how it is in a lot of ways. Those who command respect strive to be the best they can, whatever the direction may be.

I used to have the same perspective as many here and I would've called you out as well as even myself! Then I learned a lot about psychology and human behavior. And I realized the importance of putting your goals and passions first and it turned my perspective on life upside down. The way we are wired is actually quite different from what society tell us is correct/incorrect these days. As much as on the surface those politically correct ideas make sense and are easy to agree with.

All of what you’re saying here is a fine perspective to have on life and success.

It just has nothing to do with anyones gender. Call it courage, or fortitude, or drive or whatever. There are lots of words.