Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Utilities are very aligned on EVs and EV charging. The demand from EV charging is about as flexible as it gets.

I’ve heard that the current distribution system can only handle a few EVs on a block and will need to be upgraded.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I’ve heard that the current distribution system can only handle a few EVs on a block and will need to be upgraded.

People wrongly assume an 80KwH EV will consume 80KwH a night.

My house uses like 900KwH in the summer with AC or 600KwH other months. So 4 full charges would consume similar to our AC. And it would be pretty rare for a house to need AC overnight at the same hours their EV charges.

I bet most early EV adopters are affluent enough that they also have AC...some neighbourhoods have lots of houses with AC, and the grid has kept up fine. I'd imagine peak summer hours are a heavier draw than overnight charging will be.

Another mitigating factor as EV adoption increases may be household solar. By the time a person is buying their first EV that pushes their blocks adoption over 50%, there's decent chance earlier adopters will have added solar (as the case for solar - with battery system+EV charger - gets stronger with an EV). Mr. 51% buys an EV while their neighbour becomes Mrs. 21% for solar, and on and on.


Obviously that's cocktail napkin stuff, but there should be plenty of runway for the grid to stay ahead through general lifecycle upgrades. The one scenario I wonder a bit more about might be gentrifying neighbourhoods, like say Killarney. A bunch of big duplexes with higher rates of AC and EV adoption replacing little old bungalows on big lots. That might need a little more work to keep up, but I think it would have more to do with increased density and power usage than EVs.

More thinking out loud on my part, but I bet during freezing cold weeks like this that are stressing the energy grid (though it sounds like there are simply generation issues more than transmission) people's driving mileage goes well down (as would their charging demand). I imagine this may be true for most inclement weather events that may challenge our infrastructure.

The real champagne problem will be long weekends when "everyone" drives their EV out to their second mansion on the lake...Invermere's grid may not be ready for that.

[mrkajz44]

I don't believe the issue is around the total amount of power required, rather the load at any one time might be too much. If everyone comes home on the block and plugs in their car around the same time the load is too much to handle at once, though we'd easily have enough power if each person plugged in their car at different times throughout the day.

[Fuzz]

I was just thinking how miserable a trip to Vancouver would be in the extreme cold. You'd lose a good 30-50% of your range, not be charging to 100%, and be dealing with slow charge rates as battery conditioning is needed more.

You could maybe make it to Lake Louise, then Golden, then probably Revelstoke, then Kamloops, then Hope. So that's at least 5 stops, and with cold temps charging is slow, so you may be an hour or more at each stop. Now imagine a near future when 20% of the vehicles doing that trip are EV's...I question how many sane people will do that more than once.

https://insideevs.com/news/460919/ca...e-30c-weather/

[Hack&Lube]

can confirm I'm currently losing 50% of my range in a month old Model 3 during this polar vortex week

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

can confirm I'm currently losing 50% of my range in a month old Model 3 during this polar vortex week

Yeah the range in my Ioniq is easily 50% of what it is in summer. But at 0- -10 I don't notice that much... its the hurts your face cold that nothing likes.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

can confirm I'm currently losing 50% of my range in a month old Model 3 during this polar vortex week

thanks for being honest...how is the heat inside the cabin?

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

can confirm I'm currently losing 50% of my range in a month old Model 3 during this polar vortex week

My wife reports the same thing on her Bolt. Range during this week has dropped to about 220km whereas it was over 400 in the summer.

Re: cabin temp…She says that heat is not as warm as a normal combustion vehicle, but she is able to preheat the cabin before she gets in, so that helps quite a bit.

[bossy22]

That's an issue with our Tesla. When it's this cold, you have to have to defrost on full blast or you fog up fast. You can't heat any other part either, so your feet get cold. My kid in the back also gets cold. It reminds me of growing up and doing our yearly Christmas road trip up to Peavine. Me and my brother cold in the back because the heater was just keeping up with the windshield.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by bossy22

That's an issue with our Tesla. When it's this cold, you have to have to defrost on full blast or you fog up fast. You can't heat any other part either, so your feet get cold. My kid in the back also gets cold. It reminds me of growing up and doing our yearly Christmas road trip up to Peavine. Me and my brother cold in the back because the heater was just keeping up with the windshield.

I haven't experienced this.

If you bought a Tesla in the past 2 years you have a heat pump which is about 3-4 times as efficient at heating the interior and battery as old fashioned resistive heating - however heat pumps start losing their advantage and becomes even with normal resistive heating at around -20º

Personally even at -30º, the cabin could way too toasty when I wanted it to be but I also have all heated seats and the heated steering wheel is intense. I usually kept the heat levels low though and just bundled up to increase range.

The best thing has to be scheduled departure/preconditioning. I visited someone, left it parked outside in -30, set it to departure at midnight on the phone and by midnight I got into the car it was already warm and ready.

[bossy22]

Our Model S is coming up on 7 years old

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I don't believe the issue is around the total amount of power required, rather the load at any one time might be too much. If everyone comes home on the block and plugs in their car around the same time the load is too much to handle at once, though we'd easily have enough power if each person plugged in their car at different times throughout the day.

That problem exists today and isn't new.

If everyone on the block turned on their arc welder at the same time, you'd have the same issue.

The transition to EV charging isn't happening overnight and the utilities have time to react and adjust their network as necessary to support the change in load profile.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

People wrongly assume an 80KwH EV will consume 80KwH a night..

According to my Tesla app, I charged 4102 KWH in 2022. That’s about 11 a day so yeah… you’d be right.

[Street Pharmacist]

Quite a big list of new EVs coming over the next 3 years, with a good number arriving in 2023. Any that anyone is interested in?


Chevy coming in with 3 new entrants: Silverado EV, Equinox (still supposed to start at $30k US), and the Blazer EV. Who thought in the 1990's that a Mustang and Blazer would be in the same segment?

Cadillac breaking the ice with the Lyriq before going 100% EV in the future

Hyundai/Kia bringing out the Ioniq 6 after the massive success of the Ioniq 5. The new Niro looks to be a big hit too.

Ford's F150 lightning isn't new, but production reportedly ramps from 15,000 per year in 2022 to 150,000+ in 2023 so there should be much better availability. Canoo is releasing their weird looking truck too which should give more option for those looking for an electric pick up.

Volkwagen continues their electric trend with the ID Buzz which is an electrified version of the old VW camper van, though it looks like Canada has to wait until 2024. If vehicles didn't cost so much in general this would be an awesome weekend vehicle.

Mercedes has a couple nice looking vehicles coming for 2023 too


I've missed dozens for sure, and a bunch of plug in hybrids too.

[powderjunkie]

I'm most intrigued by the Mazda range-extender concept...similar to a PHEV with a simpler engine that charges the battery/delivers electricity to the motor. Might be best to just skim this article but read the comments in this article:

https://www.theautopian.com/the-rota...r-on-the-road/

Unlikely this first iteration will be a panacea, and I wonder how much room for improvement exists for what is essentially a portable generator, but it'll be interesting to see the IRL specs on this.

[GGG]

Trains have run like this minus the batteries for a century using the Diesel electrics.

The question is the efficiency of electricity generation plus the electric motor vs ICE plus transmission losses.

In trains the ability to generate high tourque makes the electric motors more efficient.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1609337070992125952

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I'm most intrigued by the Mazda range-extender concept...similar to a PHEV with a simpler engine that charges the battery/delivers electricity to the motor. Might be best to just skim this article but read the comments in this article:

https://www.theautopian.com/the-rota...r-on-the-road/

Unlikely this first iteration will be a panacea, and I wonder how much room for improvement exists for what is essentially a portable generator, but it'll be interesting to see the IRL specs on this.

It's DOA I think, as that market is already past.


https://www.greencarreports.com/news...tender-on-hold


Chevy Volt and BMW already did this and it's not going to comply with most future regulations in the markets they want to sell in.


Chevy Volt had about 40 miles range on battery and then the engine would run to charge the battery. BMW i3 had about the same and it's engine was only connected to the battery I believe, so was only an on-board generator. Both have been documented for a while.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1609337070992125952

With both Russia and China being excluded from the IRA and Europe to follow suit, Canada is uniquely positioned to win really big here

[nfotiu]

I'm going to probably cross post a bit here. But my mom brought has imported her older Prius to give to my son here in the US. She's staying in Arizona the next couple months, but really needs a car at home when she goes back.

She's really hoping for an EV. She was on the Prius Prime waitlist and was kind of counting on that, but it doesn't look like it is going to happen.

She's willing to spend $50-60k cash or perhaps a bit more for the right vehicle, but can't find anything at all in to buy or even to order to come in a couple months.

She wants a smallish suv or hatchback that she can put a women's bike inside with the car seats down and wants it to be a full EV or possibly plug in hybrid.

Any thoughts on what could be available or how best to acquire something in the next couple months? She lives on Vancouver island, and I think she'd be good getting something anywhere in BC. She thinks Alberta is too burdensome to bring back to BC, but I'm not sure it is that hard?

Anyone who can help at all would be appreciated or a hook up with someone who could help!