The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

FDW wants a public lynching (ban) of RDW because Ignore feature doesn't work for intended purposes, since people just keep quoting him, then quotes him in the very next post. Lol.

Thanked for making me laugh. But recognize FDW's actions aren't that crazy, ricardodw can do that to you!

[blender]

PepsiFree hit the nail on the head. Ricardo can be a bit maddening, sure, but if it really works you up to the point that you can't enjoy yourself here I'm not sure what to say. Maybe he isn't the problem? Banning people for being engaged but mildly annoying seems like a bridge too far.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Falclore

So.... back to the discussion of this thread. Anyone think this goes past Thursday?

That would be enough time to get back to camp, complete the physicals and get in 2 or 3 preseason games before the start of the season. Get it done!!

I would guess that this one drags until November to be honest. Brad doesn't seem to budge much on his negotiations and I think Tkachuk is in for the long haul as well...

If I had to guess, this will either end with a team friendly deal or a trade, but what do I know!!

[Roof-Daddy]

I haven't read a ricardo post in years, everybody should try it.

[MissTeeks]

You know, Tkachuk could just sign and then this thread can die. Think of us, Matthew!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I haven't read a ricardo post in years, everybody should try it.

Oh how I wish I had the discipline to never click the “View Post” on an ignored post. Unfortunately I click it all too often sometimes. The fault is definitely my own on that.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Oh how I wish I had the discipline to never click the “View Post” on an ignored post. Unfortunately I click it all too often sometimes. The fault is definitely my own on that.

I gave up ignoring people just for that reason.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I would guess that this one drags until November to be honest. Brad doesn't seem to budge much on his negotiations and I think Tkachuk is in for the long haul as well...

If I had to guess, this will either end with a team friendly deal or a trade, but what do I know!!

Unlikely that the Flames will sign him that late, because his cap hit gets higher with every day of the regular season he misses.

[Bingo]

I guess I subscribe to the notion that even an absurd suggestion or bating question can lead to a well thought out answer, or something I've never thought of.

Rarely come away without learning or exploring something in a different way.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Buff

Has there been a case of that happening? If so, with a higher profile player?

Well it's a new trend (Three years ago, post-ELC contracts weren't insane), so we haven't had any come due yet

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Unlikely that the Flames will sign him that late, because his cap hit gets higher with every day of the regular season he misses.

Meh, cap-hit gets higher proportionate to the amount of cap saved by signing him later.

In a nutshell, if you signed him to 8M half way through the season his cap hit would be 16M but only 8M would count against the cap as he's here for half the season.

That doesn't account for the 'replacement' player's cap-hit while he's not signed but as long as you've got the room for Tkachuk at the start of the season you have it throughout the year (not that it's ideal).

[stang]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Meh, cap-hit gets higher proportionate to the amount of cap saved by signing him later.

In a nutshell, if you signed him to 8M half way through the season his cap hit would be 16M but only 8M would count against the cap as he's here for half the season.

That doesn't account for the 'replacement' player's cap-hit while he's not signed but as long as you've got the room for Tkachuk at the start of the season you have it throughout the year (not that it's ideal).

That’s so not “meh”

If you signed him at the beginning then half way it’d be 4. So still double

[Oling_Roachinen]

It's more nuance then that, but if he signed today at 8M for 8 years, he would cost 4M in the first half, and 4M in the second half...for a total of 8M of cap against the Flames at the end of the year, duh.

But really what's happening, if there's 180 days in the NHL season, he's counting $8,000,000/180=$44,444 a day against the cap. By season end, he counts 8M against the cap (180*44,444)

If you sign him 90 days into the NHL season to an "8M*8 year" contract, assuming the contract is uniformly distributed with no signing bonus, he would make 4M this year, 8M a year for the next 7 years, for a total value of 60M. His cap hit in years 2-8 would therefore be 60M/8= 7.5M.

His cap hit this year would be 15M. His cap each day is much higher at 15M/180=$83,333 but he's only counting for 90 days, so he would count as 7.5M against the cap by years end.

Nylander signed a 45M, 6 year contract. Had he signed it at the beginning of the year the cap-hit is easy and obvious at 7.5M. However since he signed it late in the season, through signing bonus and salary structure, he will earn 41.72M on it. So 41.2M/6=6.96M which is his cap-hits for seasons 2 through 6 of the contract. However, since he signed it on day 59, his cap-hit was 6.96*180/(180-59)=10.3M for a full year in his first year. But again, since he only counted 121 days of the 180 day season, his cap-hit against the Leafs at the end of the season was...6.9M.

This ignores the December deadline, but there's more advantage cap-wise to hold out on signing an RFA. There was conspiracies against the Leafs negotiations with Nylander because the longer they waited the less he counted towards the cap the next years. Of course the huge downside is you don't get the player for those games. You'll always get a break in cap if you sign a player after the season started compared to if you had signed him in the off-season to the same contracts.

And this follows similar logic to trade deadline acquisitions. If you get a 10M player 3/4 of the way through the season, he's only costing 2.5M to the new team in total cap at the end of the season.

[browna]

Timing of signing Imo is moot because my guess a major sticking point still is how the annual wage is split between signing bonus and salary.
Players trend is an annual portion (more the better) being paid up front, and a reduced salary. Flames haven't given out any contracts like that IIRC.

No matter what, almost certainly there will be a signing bonus to be paid immediately as part of the first year compensation. JG got one, Mono got one only in the lockout potential year like JG as well.

[DoubleK]

I don't understand why the SB thing is a barrier for a team that is flush with cash like the Flames are.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I don't understand why the SB thing is a barrier for a team that is flush with cash like the Flames are.

Yeah I doubt that signing bonuses is a major sticking point for the Flames. I'm sure they don't like the large signing bonues but I would think the actual cap hit is the main issue.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I don't understand why the SB thing is a barrier for a team that is flush with cash like the Flames are.

Because it’s not your money.


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[trublmaker]

[QUOTE=blender;7205335]PepsiFree hit the nail on the head. Ricardo can be a bit maddening, sure, but if it really works you up to the point that you can't enjoy yourself here I'm not sure what to say. Maybe he isn't the problem? Banning people for being engaged but mildly annoying seems like a bridge too far.[/QUO


beside that the reactions to his posts are more fun than the post itself

[GioforPM]

What’s the most time people here can see Treliving go before he packs it in on negotiations? For me, if Tkachuk holds out for any significant length of time, I’d prefer he missed the whole season. I haven’t landed on what is significant, but its for sure shorter than with Nylander. I suppose it depends on how the team does without him.

[868904]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What’s the most time people here can see Treliving go before he packs it in on negotiations? For me, if Tkachuk holds out for any significant length of time, I’d prefer he missed the whole season. I haven’t landed on what is significant, but its for sure shorter than with Nylander. I suppose it depends on how the team does without him.

If it were me, I set a hard deadline with 2 preseason games left to go. if he doesn't get that in time, he's going to be crap like Nylander was and you aren't getting full value for the first year of the contract.

At that point, he either sits the whole season or he gets traded. You can't be giving away a free season when the money is that significant, it's just not good value.