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Old 09-08-2015, 02:17 PM   #1441
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Education needs to be reformed indeed and unfortunately some of that reform is going to have to be reducing how much it costs. We can argue until we are blue in the face that "reform" will bring about those reductions or that gouging will not be allowed but the end result is the populace will see that as nothing more than a subsidized system. I don't think Sanders believes everyone should have free education equates to simply handing wannabe students money. It has to come from reform. (edit: also want to point out that Sanders is saying tuition PUBLIC institutions should be free. Plenty of private schools around which wouldn't fit under that umbrella. This is also the ideology phase of things where you put your wish list to the forefront rather than what one expects to actually achieve. Call me crazy that while I think Sanders is too far left, I much prefer his rhetoric to that of the entire GOP field and Clinton).

healthcare...the US already spends 6 times per capita on socialized healthcare than the next highest per capita spender for the developed countries (Canada) yet is the only country without universal coverage. There is plenty of money in the system just as there is with education. Proper and true reform need not actually cost the country and its citizens money.

But these are the problems of a "democracy" run by the special interest groups that have the deepest pockets.


So really the first reform has to be TRUE and REAL election reform. Until that happens you will never trim the very substantial fat that already exists that could cover these things that ought to be covered.
I like this post.

Also, I've heard that statement before about spending on healthcare. Do you have some backup for that though? I'd be interested in reading about that.
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:00 PM   #1442
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I like this post.

Also, I've heard that statement before about spending on healthcare. Do you have some backup for that though? I'd be interested in reading about that.
I used to have a hardcopy of an article....I'll see if I can dig it up again. It'll be somewhat outdated but we aren't talking 20 years old or anything.

Most recently there was data that showed that combined public and private spending Americans on average spend over twice as much per capita on health care than country #2 (Switzerland). It is frightening how much money is in th esystem and the outcomes are absolutely no better (though that is misleading because often times outcomes for advanced stage diseases are better in the States, however, if they had proper universal healthcare they would detect these things much earlier and have better outcomes). And keep in mind many many many americans don't spend any thing on healthcare so those that do are paying through the nose.

http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0006_health-care-oecd


edit:

OK I found something. It isn't what I had and not as severe as the 6X figure. However, the US government funding of healthcare is only behind that of Norway and Monaco. It is, per person, 140% that of Canada. The public money already exists in the system for it to be universal and likely the best universal system in the world. But the hold the insurance companies have on the system is horrendous and the delivery mix for services is even worse. People complain universal systems are inefficient and you know what they likely are....but it doesn't even compare to the inefficiency of the US system.

Only now are Americans starting to ask the questions other countries asked 50 or more years ago....

How hoorrendous are insurance companies? Well let me tell you a story. I hurt my back a decade ago. It's not typically serious enough for them to consider the risks of surgery, but I have episodes where it is just awful. Spasms. Pain (and not the typical underlying pain that is ever present). When it flares up, most things don't work unless I move to narcotics which I don't want to do that much beyond a vicodin here and there if absolutely necessary. They are addictive and reduce my ability to function. So a new type of drug has come out that is actually localized delivery through a patch. I had some samples from the doctor and wow did they work like nothing else. Not-narcotic and it took the pain away. 1 patch every 24 hours. It was great. I go to fill the prescription so I have some for the next flare up and coverage is denied. My insurance company send me a letter and in subsequent conversations saying that in their view I should take these other things (which don't work) or continue with vicodin or other narcotics because they are cheaper. The patch is too new and too expensive and they won't cover it.

So yes you read that right...my insurance company will not pony up for the only non-narcotic solution to this back pain I've ever had. The solution my doctor essentially hand picked for me when she came across the drug. They'd much rather I go on highly addictive narcotics that also reduce my ability to function during that time.

And I have one of the best insurance programs any middle to upper-middle class person could ever hope to have.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...-world-country

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...#disqus_thread

Last edited by ernie; 09-08-2015 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:04 PM   #1443
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Canada also spends less money on healthcare per capita. Is this because our health system is better or Canadians live healthier lives?
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:11 PM   #1444
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Canada also spends less money on healthcare per capita. Is this because our health system is better or Canadians live healthier lives?
It is without question the universal nature of the system, from pre-natal care through life-time preventative medicine and socialized/subsidized access to medication.
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:53 PM   #1445
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Mike Huckabee had a rally today for Kim Davis who had been released from jail. What a great hero she is, great person to throw your support behind.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/kim-d...638521231.html
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Old 09-08-2015, 04:01 PM   #1446
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It is without question the universal nature of the system, from pre-natal care through life-time preventative medicine and socialized/subsidized access to medication.
Except the two-tiered systems of Europe all lead us by a considerable margin. That said, the more simplified access is to the system, the more it seems to lower costs.
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Old 09-08-2015, 04:07 PM   #1447
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Except the two-tiered systems of Europe all lead us by a considerable margin. That said, the more simplified access is to the system, the more it seems to lower costs.
None of those European countries have to compete for physicians with the US like we do. Income disparity among physicians compared to Canada/US is large
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Old 09-08-2015, 04:15 PM   #1448
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#‎KimDavis‬ is freed from jail and walks on stage to "Eye of the Tiger" before breaking her silence. More: http://on.msnbc.com/1LhOUuD
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Old 09-08-2015, 04:20 PM   #1449
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Lol. Awesome
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Old 09-08-2015, 04:26 PM   #1450
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None of those European countries have to compete for physicians with the US like we do. Income disparity among physicians compared to Canada/US is large
I would think that would have a somewhat similar effect in the European Union.
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Old 09-08-2015, 04:34 PM   #1451
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I would think that would have a somewhat similar effect in the European Union.
No European country comes close to the US, and Canada is not far behind.

It's not apples to apples though as most erotism countries pay salary, vs most physicians here are fee for service and are independent contractors. There's also less "brain drain" when languages are easily compatible
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Old 09-08-2015, 05:28 PM   #1452
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No European country comes close to the US, and Canada is not far behind.

It's not apples to apples though as most erotism countries pay salary, vs most physicians here are fee for service and are independent contractors. There's also less "brain drain" when languages are easily compatible
Damn, where have you been going on vacation?
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Old 09-08-2015, 05:47 PM   #1453
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Holland is very erotic this time of year.

I use swipe texting and I swear I have ten times the mistakes other posters do, but whatever
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Old 09-08-2015, 06:51 PM   #1454
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Old 09-08-2015, 07:00 PM   #1455
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Mike Huckabee had a rally today for Kim Davis who had been released from jail. What a great hero she is, great person to throw your support behind.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/kim-d...638521231.html
It's Mike Huckabee. I would've been shocked if he didn't do this.
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Old 09-08-2015, 07:10 PM   #1456
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You know, I don't mind that she's out of jail. It's a contempt charge after all and her arrogance does not mandate a life sentence, but it sickens me how many people think that what she did is ok because she's Christian.

If a Muslim county clerk had done the same thing and based his/her decision not to issue marriage licenses to gay couples on his/her faith, I KNOW the reaction would've been incredibly different.

These people, who one one hand cry that their freedom of religion is being infringed upon by the legality of gay marriage, will on the other hand tell Muslims to leave the US for something as simple as their dress.

This is one of the largest cases of hypocrisy I have ever seen.
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Old 09-08-2015, 08:17 PM   #1457
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If she truly has faith, she would resign from her job. Her job requires her to perform activities that are against her religion, thus if she has real faith, she would quit her job, because that's what God would expect, and thus, God would provide for her because she had listened to his commands.

But nope, she wants to keep discriminating against people to make a point.

I can't figure out why they haven't started impeachment proceedings with this woman.
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:07 PM   #1458
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Why is she an elected official anyways? Why does that job call for an elected person?
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:11 PM   #1459
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If she truly has faith, she would resign from her job. Her job requires her to perform activities that are against her religion, thus if she has real faith, she would quit her job, because that's what God would expect, and thus, God would provide for her because she had listened to his commands.

But nope, she wants to keep discriminating against people to make a point.

I can't figure out why they haven't started impeachment proceedings with this woman.
I'd venture a small guess that God isn't impressed with her simply based on her only marriages.

Not a good idea to criticize others when your own failures are so evident.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:35 AM   #1460
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No Sharia law!!!!

Unless it's OUR sharia law!!!!!





This is pretty easy. She is a public servant expected to follow the laws of the land whether she likes them or not. She didn't. Was found in contempt and honestly the system even bent on this a bit by saying that she personally didn't have to issue the licenses as long as she didn't interfere with the others in her office doing so. In the private sector it would be called something like a reasonable accommodation.
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