Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Alberta is the only jurisdiction in Canada that cannot handle solar and wind and the only jurisdiction where their inclusion allegedly drives up the cost of electricity. It is the only jurisdiction with this massive tax burden.

Alberta is the province installing the most wind and solar in recent years. Ontario's major expansion occurred in the Liberal years and where rising electricity prices contributed to their 2018 defeat.

• Solar energy grew by 25.9% (810 MW) in 2022, to a new total installed capacity of nearly 4 GW.
• More than a quarter of Canada’s current solar capacity was installed in 2022.
• Alberta accounts for almost all this growth, with 759 MW of 771 MW. Saskatchewan installed 10 MW, Nova Scotia 2 MW, and Yukon 0.1 MW this year.

• Wind energy grew by 7.1% (1 GW) this year, to a new total of more than 15 GW of installed capacity.
• Western Canada blew ahead of the pack in 2022, thanks to significant growth in Alberta (nearly 605 MW) and Saskatchewan (377 MW), as well as some (24 MW) new wind in Quebec.

https://renewablesassociation.ca/new...solar-in-2022/

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I'm glad we don't have hydro, I understand that it is less carbon intensive. I was doing some research contract work with respect to the legacy of the hydro system near Thompson Manitoba, and it is some real I don't want to live on this planet material.

The short version is: in l the late 70s early 80s the province, the federal government and the hydro company lied to Indigenous peoples and flooded their homes. Not just abstract " flood their home lands" but 100% flooded their reserves without informed consent.

That is brutal. I mean the late 70s / early 80s wasn’t that long ago. While I share your outrage for that particular project (and there are likely others with similar histories), that doesn’t mean that I am opposed to clean hydro projects in Alberta.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I'm glad we don't have hydro, I understand that it is less carbon intensive. I was doing some research contract work with respect to the legacy of the hydro system near Thompson Manitoba, and it is some real I don't want to live on this planet material.

The short version is: in l the late 70s early 80s the province, the federal government and the hydro company lied to Indigenous peoples and flooded their homes. Not just abstract " flood their home lands" but 100% flooded their reserves without informed consent.

That's a function of the people involved being #######s though, not a function of hydro specifically.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by accord1999

China's industrial might is the reason solar panels are cheaper. Germany saying they kick-started it is something they say to console themselves after they lost 100K jobs in solar panel manufacturing.







https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news...ewables-sector

If Germany wasn't buying, China had nothing to sell and certainly wouldn't have spent billions in scaling a technology that was still pretty nascent

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

That's a function of the people involved being #######s though, not a function of hydro specifically.

Not a function of hydro specifically you're right. Still, the mistrust is as strong, or in some cases stronger than ever. Do we have the stomach for 30 years of trying to move beyond consultation?

Or do we wind up doing what is being done with oil and gas where the archeological and historical consultant show up at a reserve and explain that there is no stopping the projects and if the community wants to protect things of cultural significance they will have to speak up now because they will plow through it unless they do, and if they try have a show of solidarity they get the brunt of colonial hate like the poor folks at Wetʼsuwetʼen who needed to go through police blockades anytime they want to buy groceries?


I think it would be just as easy to flood bearspaw to build a hydro damn there. But of course that isn't an option. These projects don't get planned where they might impact settler society.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think it would be just as easy to flood bearspaw to build a hydro damn there. But of course that isn't an option. These projects don't get planned where they might impact settler society.

"Settler society" has been impacted many times by dam construction. Just go look at what happened with the Mica, Revelstoke and Keenleyside dams. There's plenty of residents that were around back then that'll tell you how they really feel about how it went down.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

"Settler society" has been impacted many times by dam construction. Just go look at what happened with the Mica, Revelstoke and Keenleyside dams. There's plenty of residents that were around back then that'll tell you how they really feel about how it went down.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...tion-1.4870591

https://apca.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Ma...3e6e47d5f7e975

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Not a function of hydro specifically you're right. Still, the mistrust is as strong, or in some cases stronger than ever. Do we have the stomach for 30 years of trying to move beyond consultation?

Or do we wind up doing what is being done with oil and gas where the archeological and historical consultant show up at a reserve and explain that there is no stopping the projects and if the community wants to protect things of cultural significance they will have to speak up now because they will plow through it unless they do, and if they try have a show of solidarity they get the brunt of colonial hate like the poor folks at Wetʼsuwetʼen who needed to go through police blockades anytime they want to buy groceries?


I think it would be just as easy to flood bearspaw to build a hydro damn there. But of course that isn't an option. These projects don't get planned where they might impact settler society.

This has played out for 20 or 30 years with Site C in BC. I think the last Nation finally signed onto the project last year.

[Fuzz]

I wonder if you could upgrade the Spray Lakes generation facility to pumped hydro to store renewable energy? I imagine we'd need to upgrade transmission capacity for that to work, and probably increase the capacity from 100MW, to, well, much more. But the reservoir has loads of capacity, and the lower reservoir(near the Nordic Centre) could probably be big enough if managed differently.

[Tron_fdc]

I mean, Alberta power generation is a really interesting conversation to me. Alberta is incredibly unique in that it has excellent wind and solar potential that we are seeing get built out, but SFA seems to be happening for hydro. Why is that? Is it a lack of water? Is it cost? Environmentalism? I recall something about the Old Man dam being built on condition it was never used for hydro electric. Maybe it's time to revisit that?

Coal is a non starter. Gas seems to be going that direction. Nuclear is the boogeyman. So what are Albertans supposed to do here? Buy personal diesel generators for winter? The more I read about it, the more I find myself agreeing with the UCP's stance on the CER. It's not a one-size-fits-all regulation that can apply across the country.

I also found this info that I was searching for the last few weeks:

Currently, BC and Alberta share a single transmission connection (called an intertie) with a design capacity of 1200 MW. However, due to constraints of the Alberta electricity grid, this intertie is limited to a maximum of 780 MW.


https://achemistinlangley.net/2020/0...actors-matter/

So Alberta can't even import if power requirements aren't being met by its generation (specifically in this case wind and solar). In order to do so it requires massive line upgrades and investment in BC Hydro, but who's going to pay for it? I don't think BC has a spare Churchill Falls deal laying around.

I certainly understand people's drive to reduce emissions, but it sure seems to me Alberta is a unique market that needs a very unique solution to do it.

[TheIronMaiden]

nuclear energy is probably the best bet. You have 100s of acres of "reclaimed" oil sands mining that isn't great for human or animal occupation. with power generation infrastructure near by.

[Tron_fdc]

Edit: I haven't read the energy transition thread and lots of my questions are answered in there.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Edit: I haven't read the energy transition thread and lots of my questions are answered in there.

It's a fascinating topic for sure

[FlameOn]

UCP halts approvals of all geothermal energy projects in Alberta. Gotta get those oil company kickbacks.

Highlights from article:

When Alberta’s Environment Minister arrives in Germany this week for the inauguration of a massive geothermal energy project, developed by a Calgary company, her baggage will include her government’s decision to pause all geothermal power project approvals as part of a broader moratorium on renewables.

Being subsurface, geothermal energy projects have much more in common with Alberta’s traditional oil and gas sectors than with solar or wind, points out Sara Hastings-Simon, an assistant professor at the University of Calgary whose work focuses on the energy transition.

So the government’s justification for a pause for renewables development – particularly around preserving viewscapes and agricultural land use – “don’t stand up to scrutiny,” Dr. Hastings-Simon said.

“If you were trying to design something that would create as much uncertainty as possible for investors, you would do something like what Alberta has done – this secret surprise announcement with no consultation beforehand. Any investor that’s looking in the future says, ‘Well, if that can happen at any time, where does that leave me?’ ”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...ect-approvals/

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by GGG

What have they done the last 5 years to address this very predictable problem? Regardless of if this pause is currently warranted it’s still a failure of government. This issue didn’t just show up. And it’s not like this was a campaign promise to change course from a previous government.

The issue did just show up. From the Feds. With the CER. Prior to that we were on a trajectory to pair the massive renewable growth that’s been happening in this province with gas peakers. Now they are prohibitively expensive to abate.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's not an explanation for pausing it. A company can decide for itself when it is economically viable.

An individual project can be economically viable while still being detrimental to the overall system. Why can’t we just take a pause while the CER debate plays out, then reevaluate what the best grid of the future is?

Originally Posted by Monahammer

We should probably take back the existing Hydro assets in the province from their private holders then though, as they are currently reserving use of those power assets for higher $ time periods. We don't need new peaking plants, we just need these assets to be actually useable for the population instead of purely profit oriented.

The hydro assets in this province don’t have enough capacity to sustain the required periodic week+ demand during dark and windless times. They simply can’t store enough potential energy in terms of volume of water and height differential. Our hydro is mostly run of river which is good for daily management. And even if they could, those dark windless hours would be the expensive ones…so they’d still by definition be holding water back for the higher $ periods. That’s the whole point.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

The issue did just show up. From the Feds. With the CER. Prior to that we were on a trajectory to pair the massive renewable growth that’s been happening in this province with gas peakers. Now they are prohibitively expensive to abate.

An individual project can be economically viable while still being detrimental to the overall system. Why can’t we just take a pause while the CER debate plays out, then reevaluate what the best grid of the future is?

The hydro assets in this province don’t have enough capacity to sustain the required periodic week+ demand during dark and windless times. They simply can’t store enough potential energy in terms of volume of water and height differential. Our hydro is mostly run of river which is good for daily management. And even if they could, those dark windless hours would be the expensive ones…so they’d still by definition be holding water back for the higher $ periods. That’s the whole point.

Accord1999 mentioned the costs as a reason, I was saying that isn't logical.

Why can't they talk and chew gum at the same time? Why does every explanation they offer not line up with the facts(like this geothermal example)? Why has the oil industry never had to live through a drilling pause while the government figured out how to hamstring them? The reality is, as we are seeing, this is extremely detrimental to business development, and is a big ####ing red warning flag to any other industry and business looking to come to Alberta. Who's to know when an irrational government will, without any consultation or previous industry discussion, shut you down for at least 7 months(possibly forever)? Why would you invest here when you can go anywhere else in the world?

Frankly, I find it amazing how quickly capitalist conservatives can discard the very principles for which they stand. Like, this is basically Venezuela level governance going on, yet the defenders are here to explain why free market capitalism needs to be restrained...for...reasons.

[Fuzz]

"Our understanding is that, where storage is directly connected to a renewable facility, it's paused with the rest of the renewable facility," said Robert Tremblay with Energy Storage Canada, an industry advocacy group.

Standalone-battery facilities aren't affected in the same way, he said, but the pause has nonetheless cast a chill on the sector more broadly.

"I think this has shaken up the confidence of the industry a little bit," Tremblay said. "Just because batteries aren't paused now doesn't mean the industry necessarily feels comfortable."

The provincial government's pause on renewable energy has also prompted some companies to rethink their plans for energy storage in Alberta, said Jorden Dye, acting director of the Business Renewables Centre, a Calgary-based organization that helps match developers and buyers in the renewable sector.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...939655?cmp=rss

Brilliant stuff. Sorry, but this is pants on head stupid. This is what happens when you let Rob Anderson make policy. Thanks again, UCP voters.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...939655?cmp=rss

Brilliant stuff. Sorry, but this is pants on head stupid. This is what happens when you let Rob Anderson make policy. Thanks again, UCP voters.

It’s going to be a long four years for you.

[Fuzz]

Any defence for this? Is this what you'd consider good market capitalism policy?

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Any defence for this? Is this what you'd consider good market capitalism policy?

Unrelated pseudo-fascist propaganda tweet incoming in 3...2...1...