Unique as far as his insanity? Sure. Unique as far as his views? Not a chance. His views are the reflection of the GOP base, but unlike other ones he doesn't use codewords, he just says it. But if Trump does lose, and you think DeSantis or whoever running in 2028 won't be running on virtually the exact same platform, I don't know what to tell you. In fact someone running on the same platform who is young and sane would be up 10+ on Biden right now. The only reason this thing is still in doubt is because Trump is so insane. But the platform and views themselves aren't going away even if he loses, and in the hands of someone sane could be implemented with more success.
Everyone understands this. Everyone is focused specifically on trump due to his level on insanity.
Like, the global impact of it is palpable. It’s “comical” to pretend that any other GOP candidate will impact the globe like Trump has. Or even the states.
If you don’t realize That Trump is actually the best case scenario for a republican candidate right now I don’t know what to tell you. He is and has always been the symptom not the disease. Replacing him with a politically competent conservative who understands how to use the power that apparently is only held in check by the honour system? That’s the doomsday scenario not Trump 2.0. Look what McConnell did just with the senate. I know politics are team sports now but that doesn’t mean you have to be as blindly loyal to ideologies as the local hockey squad. He’s not McDavid buoying the oilers he’s just the guy at the front of the line right now.
I don’t see January 6th happening under anyone else. That day alone did significant damage to the country in terms of division. There are terrible policies, and corruption… and then there is actively and vocally dividing everyone and whipping them up into frenzies. I find the latter much more dangerous to everybody’s day to day.
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Ok so what will Trump do that is unique to him and not another candidate? Ukraine is probably about it? Even then you are seeing more and more GOP going against helping them anymore. Sure a true neocon like Romney might fully support Ukraine, but a neocon can't win in the current climate (as if somehow we've reached the point of neocons (!!!!) being a good thing lol). Otherwise you'll have to tell me what Trump is uniquely going to do that a stock GOP candidate wouldn't do...
Massive tax cuts and running up huge deficits? All of them
Staunchly against female and minority rights? All of them
Against most business regulations? All of them
Unlimited support for the usual American foreign policy? All of them
End game of a Christian theocracy? All of them
So yeah Ukraine might actually be it. And that sucks for the people of Ukraine, but acting like Trump is some stray actor and not just a mostly standard GOP candidate? Nah.
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Last edited by Senator Clay Davis; 05-28-2024 at 03:33 PM.
I don’t see January 6th happening under anyone else. That day alone did significant damage to the country in terms of division. There are terrible policies, and corruption… and then there is actively and vocally dividing everyone and whipping them up into frenzies. I find the latter much more dangerous to everybody’s day to day.
This isn’t unique to him either. I can empathize with the thought, I happen to live in the states, but I disagree with the premise. All Trump did was break the decorum of not saying the quiet part out loud and now that toothpaste doesn’t go back into the tube. This had been bubbling since at least Reagan and his welfare queen dog whistle horsecrap, it simmered with Clinton and the political angling of Newt Gingrich and the rise of Rush Limbaugh, and finally boiled over with the Tea Party when a black guy actually won. This now is the wake behind the boat and the boat screamed past us a while ago.
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Ok so what will Trump do that is unique to him and not another candidate? Ukraine is probably about it? Even then you are seeing more and more GOP going against helping them anymore. Sure a true neocon like Romney might fully support Ukraine, but a neocon can't win in the current climate (as if somehow we've reached the point of neocons (!!!!) being a good thing lol). Otherwise you'll have to tell me what Trump is uniquely going to do that a stock GOP candidate would do...
Massive tax cuts and running up huge deficits? All of them
Staunchly against female and minority rights? All of them
Against most business regulations? All of them
Unlimited support for the usual American foreign policy? All of them
End game of a Christian theocracy? All of them
So yeah Ukraine might actually be it. And that sucks for the people of Ukraine, but acting like Trump is some stray actor and not just a mostly standard GOP candidate? Nah.
The most unique thing about Trump is he can do all those things and still win some elections. Generally speaking, running on that platform doesn't win national, or state wide elections in all but the red-ist of states.
The moderate republicans can't win primaries anymore, but the hard right guys can't win general elections. Trump is the big exception to that.
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He alludes to a lot of things that never happen. He is a pathological liar after all. He'll be terrible again, but these apocalyptic views of him winning are designed to be over the top to try and coax people into voting against "the end of the modern Western world".
Nope, there's no agenda to coax people or whatever. I'm saying that Trump will end the modern western world because, if he regains the powers of the presidency, he will in fact end the modern western world. It's a correct assessment based on everything Trump has said and done, combined with an understanding of history, and the nature of malignantly-narcissistic psychopaths.
If you still doubt me, I'd invite you to study the following things:
- Project 2025 and Agenda 47
- The Enabling Act of 1933 and Hitler's rise to power in the years leading up to it. (Especially take note of how those raising the alarm about Hitler were largely ignored.)
- Trump's rhetoric on undocumented immigrants, including multiple instances of echoing literal Nazi propaganda.
- His plans for concentration camps for 15+ million immigrants (hint: the camps won't just be used for immigrants).
- Trump's praise for dictators, especially Putin and Orban. He even met with Orban to discuss plans for a 2nd presidency.
- Trump's disdain for NATO and his obvious desire to undermine and weaken it as much as possible.
- All the times he "accidently" dog whistled to white supremacists. ie: "stand back and stand by", "Unified Reich", etc.
- Denies climate change.
- Denies the existence of trans people.
- Spent the past decade constantly demonizing his political opponents, wrongfully labelling them as America-hating monsters who are determined to destroy the country.
- Was so angry about losing the 2020 election that he riled up his supporters with lies and angry rhetoric, culminating in an insurrection at the Capitol. He then filed dozens of lawsuits claiming the election was stolen, and when those failed, he tried a fake elector scheme to try and steal the election. He continues to this day to lie about the election being stolen, even though he knows full well it wasn't.
Now take into account that both the supreme court and Judge Cannon (Trump-appointed judge) have taken every possible legal twist and turn that they could possibly take to help Trump to the absolute maximum extent possible. No reasonable person could look at what they did with Trump's court cases and say that their agenda was anything other than to push the cases out until after the election and help Trump avoid being held accountable for his crimes.
I'm sorry but, there's no equivalency here between Trump's first term and what he will do if he gets another. He's become so power-hungry that he will do whatever it takes to hang on to it permanently. And with the supreme court in his pocket, there's really no restraint on what he can do in terms of wiping out his political opposition and media outlets that don't give him favorable coverage 100% of the time. Literally the only real check on his power will be which orders the military chooses not to follow. Chances are, they'll follow all or most of them.
the grim evil bastards in his backroom that will use Trump, he is a violent angry child but there are people behind him that will use that and they aren't stupid nor will they ever give up power
This is a very good point. Trump plans to purge the federal government of nonpartisan civil servants and replace them with people who pledge 100% loyalty to him. This will, undoubtedly, mean federal agencies will be loaded up with white supremacists and neonazis. Which is yet another reason why Trump getting back into office would be an utter catastrophe. Once Trump is eventually gone, the white supremacists will still be there running the government.
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Last edited by Mathgod; 05-28-2024 at 07:59 PM.
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This is a very good point. Trump plans to purge the federal government of nonpartisan civil servants and replace them with people who pledge 100% loyalty to him. This will, undoubtedly, mean federal agencies will be loaded up with white supremacists and neonazis. Which is yet another reason why Trump getting back into office would be an utter catastrophe. Once Trump is eventually gone, the white supremacists will still be there running the government.
I don't agree with your predictions. But you are 100% the voice every Democratic voter and supporter of democracy needs to hear right now. A lot of Democrats stayed home in 2016 because they figured it was a lock.
I recall an article that of the women at the "women's marches" in LA after the 2016 election 30% of those interviewed hadn't voted.
A lot of other folks are forgetting the crazy #### Trump did - because he did so much of it.
This isn't about sharpies on a weather map. It's about him literally claiming to have said the opposite of what he said in front of Putin (on camera) because he's Putin's bitch. It's about him dismantling NATO. It's about him fully believing this is just another great grift for his idiot kids.
So shine on Mathgod.
People need to be scared as f--k.
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I agree with portions of Mathgods assessment but not the punch line. It’s not humanity that’s on the brink, it’s western civilization as we know it. There’s a difference, humans will still exist in a much different world and probably not a better one.
I think the biggest difference between Trump and most of the other high-level GOP candidates is that he actually (somehow) has populist appeal to the deplorables. McConnell, DeSantis, Haley or other somewhat competent Republicans are still seen as swamp creatures by the MAGAts. But, the real danger lies in an unknown future candidate that has Trumps populist appeal and is competent. I don't think that person has emerged from the muck yet, but it's only a matter of time.
In a nutshell - special elections are more accurate than polling. Dems won those, or overperformed. The only people who answer polls (landline unknown caller during weekday working hours) are retirees. Record turnout to vote against Trump in 2020. Roe v Wade being overturned is the most single voter mobilizing issue of the last 40 years. Young women now vote in record numbers across every state.
I could be wrong about ALL of that. So your voice is super important in getting out the vote.
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In a nutshell - special elections are more accurate than polling. Dems won those, or overperformed. The only people who answer polls (landline unknown caller during weekday working hours) are retirees. Record turnout to vote against Trump in 2020. Roe v Wade being overturned is the most single voter mobilizing issue of the last 40 years. Young women now vote in record numbers across every state.
I could be wrong about ALL of that. So your voice is super important in getting out the vote.
There are counterpoints to that though.
Inflation is a major issue that affects everyone, and Biden (wrongfully) takes all the blame.
Trump is somehow benefitting from the phenomenon that people have a fonder view of past presidents as time passes.
The other major factor is Israel. There are a lot of young people who say they are not voting for Biden due to Israel policies. Is that principal worth standing up for if it means giving the White House to someone who is likely to be more pro-Israel, and also will make life worse for women, minorities and LGBTQ+ people?
Biden's path to victory is convincing people that Trump is a far worse option for points 1 and 3. They need to figure out how to get that message out, and convince people, and I'm not sure if they can.
Inflation is a major issue that affects everyone, and Biden (wrongfully) takes all the blame.
Trump is somehow benefitting from the phenomenon that people have a fonder view of past presidents as time passes.
The other major factor is Israel. There are a lot of young people who say they are not voting for Biden due to Israel policies. Is that principal worth standing up for if it means giving the White House to someone who is likely to be more pro-Israel, and also will make life worse for women, minorities and LGBTQ+ people?
Biden's path to victory is convincing people that Trump is a far worse option for points 1 and 3. They need to figure out how to get that message out, and convince people, and I'm not sure if they can.
I just figure the issues you list are unlikely to flip voters from Biden to Trump. The only issue that matters is Trump or "not Trump". For most elections it's either Democrat or Republican for the vast majority of voters, and it's how they vote their whole lives.
The only real question is turnout. Trump makes people come out in record numbers to vote against him. It's literally the only reason they vote.
That's visible in the special elections. That's visible in red states voting for the Democrats as a result of Roe v. Wade.
For the youth vote and the Israel Palestine conflict - I tend to think the media coverage outstrips the actual headcount of protesters. There was a "walkout" when Jerry Seinfeld was speaking in North Carolina at Duke and it was heavily reported, but it amounted to something like 30-100 of 7000 attendees.
Hope I'm right. Could be wrong. Want to see a lot of voices calling out the risk between now and November regardless.
Ok so what will Trump do that is unique to him and not another candidate? Ukraine is probably about it? Even then you are seeing more and more GOP going against helping them anymore. Sure a true neocon like Romney might fully support Ukraine, but a neocon can't win in the current climate (as if somehow we've reached the point of neocons (!!!!) being a good thing lol). Otherwise you'll have to tell me what Trump is uniquely going to do that a stock GOP candidate wouldn't do...
Massive tax cuts and running up huge deficits? All of them
Staunchly against female and minority rights? All of them
Against most business regulations? All of them
Unlimited support for the usual American foreign policy? All of them
End game of a Christian theocracy? All of them
So yeah Ukraine might actually be it. And that sucks for the people of Ukraine, but acting like Trump is some stray actor and not just a mostly standard GOP candidate? Nah.
Russia winning that war will impact all of us; not just Ukrainians.
AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
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It's a reasonable question as to just how far Trump will be able to push his fascist revenge fantasies during a second term. Can he gut the civil service and fill it with sycophant true-believers? Can he ignore the rule of law and just how far can he push unilateral executive action?
The prosecutions and even threats of jail time certainly give him the motivation to go balls to the wall fascist.
In a nutshell - special elections are more accurate than polling. Dems won those, or overperformed.
Not recently. In the 30 contested special elections since the November 2023 elections, Democrats are about 2 points back of Biden's 2020 vote share in those same districts and they're barely ahead of Clinton's vote share. By contrast, in the 38 special elections in 2023 before then, they were outperforming Biden's 2020 vote by 3 points and Clinton's by nearly 7 points.
On top of that, Biden is personally unpopular, so it's reasonable to think that he could underperform Democrats. Even 1.5 years ago polls were showing a generic Democratic presidential candidate polling well ahead of Biden in a head to head vs. various Republican candidates. The only thing keeping Biden competitive right now is how disliked Trump is, but that might not be enough to win the election.
I think we get a hung jury in NYC - tomorrow or Friday. MAGAts will rejoice and proclaim that the verdict vindicates Trump. I just think one if them lied to get onto the jury or someone fell for Trump’s BS.
