[Signing] Flames sign James Neal (5 years, 5.75 AAV)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Are you at all worried that Lucic has 175 percent more assists and 14 percent more points? Is it possible that Neal is only a prolific goal scorer but lacks the all-around offensive game of a Milan Lucic?

No in both cases. Look at Lucic's common linemates and then tell me why he has assists.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No in both cases. Look at Lucic's common linemates and then tell me why he has assists.

Oh, I see what you mean. For Milan Lucic, 75% of his points come with one of McDavid, Draisaitl or Nugent Hopkins or on the Power Play as part of the scoring play. A paltry 25% without those guys and at even strength as part of the scoring play.

With Neal only 86% of his points came with one of Johnny, Monahan or Tkachuk as part of the scoring play or on the power play. They both seem to rely on their linemates or situational scoring a lot, but that is just at first blush, perhaps Neal is more of a visual driver of the play than a statistical driver.

Lucic has 100% more points at even strength without one of the big 3 forwards on his team than Neal does. Disconcerting if Lucic can keep up that spread.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by FlamesAreOne

Because everyone was looking their way all night obviously and everyone was laughing about how brutal Neal is.

Sounds like an exciting night for everyone.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

I’ll think you’ll find the majority of my posts this weekend havent been about Neal.

Anyway, back on topic. The point of my post was that when other players struggle you can see them try other things to contribute.

- Bennett (who is second place on my #### list) punches someone in the face when he’s not scoring.
- Jankowski at least kills penalties when he’s not scoring.
- Chucky draws penalties when he’s not scoring.
- Derek Ryan wins 56% of defensive end face offs when he is not scoring.

...wtf does Neal do when he’s not scoring?

Play good defense. Oh crap, wrong player.

[OutOfTheCube]

How would you guys feel about a James Neal for Kyle Okposo trade. Let's say Buffalo retains $250K on Okposo so the contracts are an even swap. Both guys struggling.

[442scotty]

Ive been pretty down on Neal for a while but the last two games he seems more engaged.. Might be hope for him yet

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No in both cases. Look at Lucic's common linemates and then tell me why he has assists.

Are we really at the point where the best argument FOR James Neal is “he’s probably better than a Milan Lucic”

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

How would you guys feel about a James Neal for Kyle Okposo trade. Let's say Buffalo retains $250K on Okposo so the contracts are an even swap. Both guys struggling.

I would do it, Okposo is a right handed shot and could possibly be a good fit with Tkachuk. Point totals are almost identical over the last 3 years. This year Okposo is more productive.

[David Struch]

Hopefully Neal continues to play alongside Tkachuk & Backlund and the three of them develop some consistency together.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I would do it, Okposo is a right handed shot and could possibly be a good fit with Tkachuk. Point totals are almost identical over the last 3 years. This year Okposo is more productive.

That's certainly a consideration. Ladd would be another one I'd make an attempt for. If Neal still struggles from now and into the playoffs, all options have to be explored.

His cap hit along with the minutes he plays will not be beneficial at all when games get tougher to win. Heck, the Flames have lost 4 of the last 5 and he's being counted on to score. So, if he can't do so, he has absolutely no use to this team as he brings nothing else to the table.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Are we really at the point where the best argument FOR James Neal is “he’s probably better than a Milan Lucic”

No. There was a poster who suggested this was the case, and I responded to that particular notion.

[Kasi]

I think Neal and Tkachuk together doesn’t work because they both are bad skaters. Just not enough speed on that line. Maybe if the line wasn’t tasked as a shutdown line it might work, but playing against top competition those two get burned. Sadly I think the same reasoning holds true for Neal with Monahan.

So you have this weird thing where I think Peters has to keep Monahan, Tkachuk and Neal on different lines, which slides Neal down to the third line. Best thing I hope is that Neal can work with Jankowski and Bennett/someone else as a consistent third line that gets offensive deployment.

Edit: Or just split the lines into two second lines. Jankowski with Tkachuk and Neal but only in offensive deployment. Then put Backlund with Bennett and someone else (Dube/Frolik) as purely a shutdown line. This will mean that Tkachuks icetime will likely go down in home games though.

[Azure]

I think Neal is starting to pick it up and will break out soon.

I also think that will annoy a lot of guys on here who seem to think hockey is a black and white game with zero struggles both on and off the ice.

Which is strange when we have a guy like Hamonic who has really stepped up this year after struggling the last one.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think Neal is starting to pick it up and will break out soon.

I also think that will annoy a lot of guys on here who seem to think hockey is a black and white game with zero struggles both on and off the ice.

Which is strange when we have a guy like Hamonic who has really stepped up this year after struggling the last one.

I highly doubt anyone is going to be annoyed if Neal starts playing well. It does seem likely that he will score soon, it has been 24 games since the last goal, for forwards those streaks rarely extend to 30 games.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think Neal is starting to pick it up and will break out soon.

I also think that will annoy a lot of guys on here who seem to think hockey is a black and white game with zero struggles both on and off the ice.

Which is strange when we have a guy like Hamonic who has really stepped up this year after struggling the last one.

Sorry, but 7 points in 38 games is beyond struggling, and to suggest that posters are just looking for a convenient whipping boy when his play and production have been terrible for whatever reason, is very strange.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Azure

I also think that will annoy a lot of guys on here who seem to think hockey is a black and white game with zero struggles both on and off the ice.
.

Stop being dramatic. Nobody here takes pleasure in Neal’s failings and nobody will be upset if he starts to succeed. I’ll stand and cheer a Neal goal tonight as much as anyone else.

What we’re discussing is a player who almost 1/2 way through a season has 3 goals, 4 assists, a team worst -10, part of (the reason for?) a disfunctional PP2, can’t contribute on the PK, can’t take face-offs, doesn’t fight, isn’t physical and doesn’t make his line-mates better.

If he doesn’t turn it around, then it’ll be a bitter pill to swallow when we can’t add much needed secondary scoring (which he was paid to provide) at the trade deadline, partly due to his very high salary leaving little room for roster flexibility.

Is it not justified to criticize this player?

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Ped

If you don't think he's going to cut it here, there's no point in wasting the roster spot and the lineup spot.


You can't worry about if he'll pick it up somewhere else.

Your kidding right? The Oilers would be the best trading partner? Why on God's green earth would we want Lucic? Good Lord.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Stop being dramatic. Nobody here takes pleasure in Neal’s failings and nobody will be upset if he starts to succeed. I’ll stand and cheer a Neal goal tonight as much as anyone else.

What we’re discussing is a player who almost 1/2 way through a season has 3 goals, 4 assists, a team worst -10, part of (the reason for?) a disfunctional PP2, can’t contribute on the PK, can’t take face-offs, doesn’t fight, isn’t physical and doesn’t make his line-mates better.

If he doesn’t turn it around, then it’ll be a bitter pill to swallow when we can’t add much needed secondary scoring (which he was paid to provide) at the trade deadline, partly due to his very high salary leaving little room for roster flexibility.

Is it not justified to criticize this player?

I think it's right to be concerned about Neal. I just don't think it's right to conclude that this is the version of James Neal we'll be seeing for the rest of the season and the next few seasons he's here.

It's also why I'm sticking to the leprechaun narrative. Nothing like a bit of gallows humor.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Your kidding right? The Oilers would be the best trading partner? Why on God's green earth would we want Lucic? Good Lord.

Sorry for the confusion, but I thought I was responding to a poster who said they didn't want to trade Neal because they were afraid of him playing well somewhere else.

[Azure]

My point is that every single year the same fans on here look for a whipping boy.

Last year those same fans were very happy to through Hamonic under the bus.

I get that Neal is really struggling, but the expectation that a guy should just have a magic button that can be pushed and boom he plays well is pretty annoying.