[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

Gary Bettman Gets Huffy While Defending The Stadium Financing Scam#

http://deadspin.com/gary-bettman-get...nci-1752554428



Never change Gary...never change!

Pro sports, whether football, basketball, hockey or baseball, have done an amazing job of tugging at people's heartstrings and making them emotionally vested. Then when it comes time for a new venue, they ask for money, and municipalities give in because they are scared of losing their beloved sports heroes.

Calgary isn't immune to losing the Flames.

Calgary needs to contribute in order to keep the Flames here, that's plain and simple. That's pro sports, and it sucks for the taxpayer and the paying fan.

I'd be really sad if the Flames left, so even though I'm against subsidizing the billionaires, I make peace with it because I love hockey and the Flames. Every other billionaire has siphoned money from their local municipality, and the Flames owners will too. It sucks.

[MacDaddy77]

Also new companies like Rocket space that are moving in to Encana place and taking space for 1000 people. Moves like this can help pave the way for a more diversified dt core

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...na-place-tower

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cappy

No one says one GD thing about the stampede or the Flames, and better yet, they are not travelling to Calgary to see them play.

Really? What is Calgary known for then?

[Cappy]

Yes, the same way Portland and Austin are the fastest growing places in the US - because of their great sports franchises...

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by New Era

Really? What is Calgary known for then?

Internationally?

If people have heard about it, its oil and the mountains.

But the thing is, we don't need to be known for anything. We can actually rest our laurels on being a mid-sized city in well-developed country that offers some of the best quality of life in the world. What is wrong with that?

[Tyler]

The majority of people complaining about money going to the library and not the arena are typically the kind of people who really do need to use the library

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Internationally?

If people have heard about it, its oil and the mountains.

But the thing is, we don't need to be known for anything. We can actually rest our laurels on being a mid-sized city in well-developed country that offers some of the best quality of life in the world. What is wrong with that?

I've traveled all over Europe. People who know about Calgary generally only know about it as the airport they need to fly into to get to Banff.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by New Era

Really? What is Calgary known for then?

The Hart Foundation?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Internationally?

If people have heard about it, its oil and the mountains.

But the thing is, we don't need to be known for anything. We can actually rest our laurels on being a mid-sized city in well-developed country that offers some of the best quality of life in the world. What is wrong with that?

Would that not include a modern and decently sized arena that could host NHL games and world class concerts?

[Ice_Weasel]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You're missing the point entirely. The city collects its funds from the business owners via property taxes, not income. Would the property values of those businesses increase with increased traffic from a new arena? Most likely yes. Will they increase enough to offset the funds being pumped into the stadium? Most of the recent data in other cities suggests no.

Another question is, even with the increased revenue, will those businesses be able to remain afloat if/when the city dramatically raises their property taxes to make up for the money spent on the arena?

Actually, you are missing my broader point. I understand how the City collects its taxes, like all taxes its a rate times a base. You made the claim that concerts are good for the local economy but basically irrelevant to the city. I am looking beyond the simple A x B tax calculation and suggesting that the success of the Calgary economy does indeed benefit the city of Calgary. It just may not be as direct and convenient for you for the purposes of this argument. A better economy translates into more people moving to Calgary for starters....more homes being built, more businesses being started, etc. etc. A growing economy = a growing tax base.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by New Era

Really? What is Calgary known for then?

I'm in the UK and while my experience is anecdotal, Brits know Calgary for:

The Flames
Olympics
Stampede
Access to the Rockies
Me talking about the Flames.
Me looking ####ed in the morning after Flames games.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It's kind of ridiculous that people are trying to dispute that big concerts bring money into the city.

Nobody is disputing that. We're disputing the overall impact they make compared to the amount of money being invested to bring them here. If you think it's a good investment, then show your work. By what percentage do these events grow or boost the local economy?

[longsuffering]

I sometimes have to wonder it all the experts interjecting with their wisdom and outlook on the debate even take the time to read the materials available on the discussion.

The "drop your pants" crowd consider a 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3 model unfair if the evil City insists on recouping at least a portion of their investment from a revenue sharing model of some kind.

Meanwhile, not a one of them address this line from the Jason Markusoff Macleans article.

Nenshi’s council has reportedly offered to pay roughly one-third of the arena’s costs, with another third coming from a ticket surcharge and the rest from the Flames organization. The Flames refused, in part because King reasons that proceeds from a ticket surtax should be considered part of the owners’ contribution. In the club’s offer, the owner contribution and user fee would come closer to half the total cost, and public fu≈nds would cover the rest.

http://www.macleans.ca/author/jason-markusoff/

I mentioned this possibility yesterday.

So if the Flames offer is $50 million cash from CSEC, $200 million from a ticket tax and $250 million in the form of a gift from the City, are the CSEC still onside with the owners?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Internationally?

If people have heard about it, its oil and the mountains.

Nope - not oil. I have travelled a fair bit - Europe, Africa, US, Caribbean and I know people in Japan and a couple other Asian countries. Those that know about Calgary at all talk about Stampede, Olympics, and sometimes skiing. Those that follow sports in the US, or those that follow hockey in Europe know the Flames.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Would that not include a modern and decently sized arena that could host NHL games and world class concerts?

quality of life rankings generally don't ask whether the city can support an NFL team

But, no it doesn't have to; nor would Calgary suffer that much in terms of quality of life, or the rankings for it, based on the the lack of a modern arena.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ice_Weasel

Actually, you are missing my broader point. I understand how the City collects its taxes, like all taxes its a rate times a base. You made the claim that concerts are good for the local economy but basically irrelevant to the city. I am looking beyond the simple A x B tax calculation and suggesting that the success of the Calgary economy does indeed benefit the city of Calgary. It just may not be as direct and convenient for you for the purposes of this argument. A better economy translates into more people moving to Calgary for starters....more homes being built, more businesses being started, etc. etc. A growing economy = a growing tax base.

Okay, then show me how much a new arena grows the local economy.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Would that not include a modern and decently sized arena that could host NHL games and world class concerts?

No, it's more about things like clean drinking water, healthcare, a functioning democracy and social mobility.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Nope - not oil. I have travelled a fair bit - Europe, Africa, US, Caribbean and I know people in Japan and a couple other Asian countries. Those that know about Calgary at all talk about Stampede, Olympics, and sometimes skiing. Those that follow sports in the US, or those that follow hockey in Europe know the Flames.

Again, we are getting into personal anecdotes. I'm saying in my experience, people know Calgary for those things - including its oil.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

No, it's more about things like clean drinking water, healthcare, a functioning democracy and social mobility.

What? You don't think migrants from developing nations and refugees fleeing war torn countries care about how many Garth Brooks shows they'll get to see in their new home? Racist.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Internationally?

If people have heard about it, its oil and the mountains.

Yet when you go to Google and start typing in Calgary, the first returns are Flames, Stampede, and weather.

Thanks for playing.

But the thing is, we don't need to be known for anything. We can actually rest our laurels on being a mid-sized city in well-developed country that offers some of the best quality of life in the world. What is wrong with that?

Some people accept mediocrity, others strive for greater things. The Calgary I remember never sat on its laurels.