World Cup South Africa, 2010 Thread

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

This is a subjective statement. It is not a fundamental problem in the game to some people. It's a common tactic in soccer. It's frown upon in some places and celebrated in others. There's no right or wrong.

Fair enough.

Just not sure how faking things can be celebrated, but if it is ingrained that far into the culture of the game, so be it.

[transplant99]

Introducing the shootout is another

Soccer does the same thing doesnt it? But only in the MORE important games?

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No, futball is not in trouble of falling off the world landscape as popular. It does appear as though it would be impossible for that to happen considering the support it has now...flaws and all.

What sport doesn't have flaws though? I don't like diving either, but I think some people make far too much out of it. Take the Italy/Paraguay game for example. In that game we saw one blantant dive. As an Italian, I was embarrassed when I saw the replay and realized that De Rossi went down untouched. But, that aside, the rest of the game was fairly clean and was overall pretty exciting. For some, it seemed that that dive ruined the game for them when in reality, it had zero impact on the match and could have been easily ignored.

I see a lot of diving in hockey these days. Even Jarome seems to go down pretty easily from time to time, but it hasn't changed my love for hockey. I guess what I am saying is that I don't buy that the reason that people don't like soccer is because of the diving, or that if the diving were eliminated, they would suddenly become fans. I'd be willing to bet that if Canada and the US had any sort of clout in these tournaments, people would get on board in spades, diving or not.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Soccer does the same thing doesnt it? But only in the MORE important games?

Completely different. The shootout in soccer is not a gimmick like in the NHL. In soccer, it only occurs in games that need to have a winner (not like in hockey where it's done just for the casual fans). In soccer, the shootout is only resorted to when the game is still deadlocked after 2 hours of play. These guys aren't allowed to take breaks, or chill on the bench until they catch their breath. Making them go any longer would be suicide. Also, it's not as if soccer fans relish the game going into a shoot-out. Most people view it as a disappointment and look at it in the sense that it is a necessary evil.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Soccer does the same thing doesnt it? But only in the MORE important games?

Yes but soccer doesn't really have a choice. Players can hardly play 120 minutes let alone on and on and on.

In hockey you can play on and on in the playoffs but in the season you need a gimmick, makes no sense.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Fair enough.

Just not sure how faking things can be celebrated, but if it is ingrained that far into the culture of the game, so be it.

I'm with you in the fact that diving is outrageous but an Argentinian friend of mine told me once that diving is a tactic and even an artform. What?

He loves the Hand of God. It's pulling a fast one on the big bad English.
Same as the Beckham red card in 98.

"Look at the stupid British. We duped them into losing their temper and we duped the stupid ref too. We're so smart!"

I think it's ridiculous but the Argentinian always have the "we're the little guys against the big bad Brits who invented the game" mentality and feel very proud when they pull a fast one on them.

He also explained to me that in Argentina people in the crowd don't cheer great plays and great goals as much as they cheer embarassment. They love it when a player trips on the ball, or falls over or gets nutmegs. That really gets them going. Duping the ref is part of the game.

#5 fell over in the first half cause he's stupid, we're going to boo and jeer him for the rest of the game.

I found it very strange but that's how it is.

[Ark2]

I believe that south americans refer to it as "melodrama", and yes, they consider it an art form.

[united]

I thought the match between Greece and Nigeria was fairly entertaining. Obviously the sending off stands out, but otherwise a good pace. I can't believe Greece managed to score two goals in a game!

Too bad for Nigeria, I've liked their team over the past decade. Enyeama played outstanding yet again, but the rebound he let out on the second Greek goal probably sealed Nigeria's tournament fate.

[mmanzz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Diving is accepted and even sometimes applauded in some of the soccer culture.
The little guy conning the big guy (wink wink), something like that. I know in NA and UK it's unacceptable but it's the World's Game and different cultures play differently.

Not sure about that, have you seen Rooney's dive to defeat Arsenal, a true classic! Although some countries seem to roll around and scream a bit more, I see all of them "helping out the referee". I pretty well ignore the diving, its the rolling around in pain to draw a card that can be frustrating.

In terms of the acceptance of diving, i think its may be a cultural issue relating to the way various countries fans look at it, not necessarily the players. To most players I believe its part of the tactics of the game as much as learning how to head the ball.

There are many coaches out there, and i have had personal experience with this that coach to dive(in Canada=yes).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Udp...eature=related

[Matty81]

Man I just got to see Argentina-South Korea and the tournament is really getting better as it is going along, that was fun to watch. Teams seem to be playing a little more relaxed although the finishing was still pretty bad, that game should have been about 6-2.

It does kind of seem like this thread is being continually dragged away from discussion of the tournament and into why soccer sucks. Pretty much every day of the tournament brings someone into the world cup thread with a soccer sucks comment. Kind of brings you a new perspective on the Oilers threads and the feelings of an Oiler fan towards Reggie Dunlop .

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ark2

I believe that south americans refer to it as "melodrama", and yes, they consider it an art form.

That something is accepted within a certain culture does not make it right.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Sigh.

If its OK with you...I am sticking with what i said...biggest does not equal good. Sorry if you have a problem with that....but I dont believe its such a stretch to believe "save the sport" is valid in regards to NA and growing the game here. (sans Mexico of course). If FIFA has no interest in that, no problem (dont believe that though) but I have to believe that even fans around the world have concerns about what happens within the game.

No, futball is not in trouble of falling off the world landscape as popular. It does appear as though it would be impossible for that to happen considering the support it has now...flaws and all.

Why the sigh? You said essentially the same thing I did.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That something is accepted within a certain culture does not make it right.

In their culture it does, that's kind of the point.

[GirlySports]

A really good soccer article from Peter King!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz0r8Ll44zT

If I were home in Boston right now, I'd have been paying passing attention (that might be putting it mildly) to the World Cup. If I'd seen Italy's Daniele De Rossi score the equalizer against Paraguay and shed immediate tears of joy, I'd have said, "Emotional Italian.'' If I'd been watching the camera pan the North Korean players during their Anthem Tuesday night and seen one of them, overcome, bawling like a baby, I'd have said, "That's what living in a totalitarian state does to you,'' or something reactionarily dumb like that.

But I'm not there. I'm here. And when Maicon scored the impossible-angle goal for Brazil Tuesday, I jumped out of my seat in the upper deck at Ellis Park here. I had to stifle an "Incredible!!!'' I never do that an NFL game. I don't know what to say about the experience of covering a World Cup -- this is day 12 of my time in South Africa -- other than you've got to be in the middle of it to understand it. I'm sure ESPN is doing a heck of a job back home; it has to be leaps better than the local coverage, which is college-TV-stationish. But ... well, let me tell you this story to explain: My wife, Ann, is with me on the trip, and I can tell you that, other than the Steelers and a little about the Red Sox, she cares nothing about sports. But the other day, when I was out working, she had the TV in our room on, and there was 20 minutes left in Slovakia-New Zealand. She was preparing to go out to exercise, and then she heard the announcer on the TV say New Zealand had never scored a World Cup goal in its history. So she stayed for a few minutes, rooting for New Zealand, and when the Kiwis scored just before time expired, she hollered in excitement.

There's another vuvuzela, by the way. Right outside the window here.

[North East Goon]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That something is accepted within a certain culture does not make it right.

We are not talking female circumcision here, it's just a guy falling and pretending he is hurt in a game. you have to take the good with the bad in any sport if you do in fact want to watch it at all.

[united]

Originally Posted by Matty81

It does kind of seem like this thread is being continually dragged away from discussion of the tournament and into why soccer sucks. Pretty much every day of the tournament brings someone into the world cup thread with a soccer sucks comment.

You either gotta argue with them or just pass by their posts or use your ignore list. And if that doesn't work, there are add-ons available to internet browsers to help out with that.

[Pastiche]

No excuses for diving. Cultural relativist or not. Unacceptable. Makes it a Mickey Mouse sport. Couldn't care less how popular it is.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

No excuses for diving. Cultural relativist or not. Unacceptable. Makes it a Mickey Mouse sport. Couldn't care less how popular it is.

Well, then hockey is a Mickey Mouse sport as well.

[Locke]

Yay, the next game is on BBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Locke]

Oh, France, you cant just let him walk in and shoot.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Well, then hockey is a Mickey Mouse sport as well.

No because hockey doesn't make excuses for diving.