Brad Treliving needs to go

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I continue to think that Treliving should get another year. But for me, my responses about what I think ownership will do have a lot to do with countering those who seem to expect that the GM will be fired after every loss, and who appear ready to accept anyone in his place. Such suppositions are fairly irrational.

I agree. He got a goalie and a coach, now let's see what he does in the offseason (at least), when player movement is actually possible.

[Pointman]

Treliving is from rich businessmen family and knows how to act around billionaires and make them feel like he's sort of one of them, of similar mindset and values.

I personally have been getting Elizabeth Holmes type vibes from Treliving. He talks about how hard he works, he knows how to talk smart, but he doesn't really know what he's talking about. He talks about throughout search and hires Gully, for example. If you look at his interviews and about how he's going to build a team, and then look at what he's actually doing. It's seems like he has no clue.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Treliving is from rich businessmen family and knows how to act around billionaires and make them feel like he's sort of one of them, of similar mindset and values.

I personally have been getting Elizabeth Holmes type vibes from Treliving. He talks about how hard he works, he knows how to talk smart, but he doesn't really know what he's talking about. He talks about throughout search and hires Gully, for example. If you look at his interviews and about how he's going to build a team, and then look at what he's actually doing. It's seems like he has no clue.

what a bunch of utter nonsense this is.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by TOfan

what a bunch of utter nonsense this is.

Ok, Brad. Take it easy.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The biggest thing that went wrong is that several key players did not take the next step, including Johnny and Monahan, leaving the club with best players that are consistently outplayed by the other team's best players.

To me that's the biggest factor, coupled with Sam not becoming an impact player, that has wrecked this edition of the club and why some sort of reset needs to happen.

The closest similar situation is the Flyers realizing that Carter/Richards weren't going to lead them to a cup. So they moved on and moved them.

That's what I think needs to happen here.

The other factor that Treliving has failed at is valuation of players.

He overvalues our players, and at the same time, has difficulty with accurately valuing players across the league.

Article on flamesnation says the offers we received for monahan were underwhelming. Were the offers underwhelming, or is monahan an underwhelming player? Believe the latter and offers presented may have been fair market value.

The value he put on hamonic was so far out of whack. When you have JT Miller move for a 1st and 3rd, which was widely panned at the time, the 1st and 2 2nds for hamonic was utter larceny by Snow. Yes, Miller wasn’t available at the time of the hamonic trade but most people thought that was a massive overpay and probably ex

Not having the foresight to move on from monahan and gaudreau will be his undoing and had set the franchise back further in developing a championship team. In addition to Lombardi, hope Futa is given consideration. LA pedigree and may have good relationship with Sutter.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I continue to think that Treliving should get another year. But for me, my responses about what I think ownership will do have a lot to do with countering those who seem to expect that the GM will be fired after every loss, and who appear ready to accept anyone in his place. Such suppositions are fairly irrational.

Another year and then another year and then another year. How many years do we think Treliving needs to start showing results? Should he get a decade of mediocrity?

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Treliving is from rich businessmen family and knows how to act around billionaires and make them feel like he's sort of one of them, of similar mindset and values.

I personally have been getting Elizabeth Holmes type vibes from Treliving. He talks about how hard he works, he knows how to talk smart, but he doesn't really know what he's talking about. He talks about throughout search and hires Gully, for example. If you look at his interviews and about how he's going to build a team, and then look at what he's actually doing. It's seems like he has no clue.

Mike Millbury despite his bluster doesn't know what he was doing as a GM.

Brad Treliving knows what he is doing as a GM. He is competent. Now is he competent but mediocre performer? Yes I can go with that, but he is not an incompetent phony.

[Northendzone]

my thought is that brad has been at the helm when some good decisions were made, and some bad decisions - the worst ones being with respect to coaches.

he seems to be ok at being a GM.

at the end of the day are the flames that much better than when he took over? there have been what two playoff rounds won in his tenure.

however, the other reality is that if they move on to someone new, then it becomes a process for the new person to get their people in place, and to reshape things to fit the new GM's vision.

Also, lets be real in that i would have to think that calgary is not a top destination for free agents, so it is hard to retool quickly.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Mike Millbury despite his bluster doesn't know what he was doing as a GM.

Brad Treliving knows what he is doing as a GM. He is competent. Now is he competent but mediocre performer? Yes I can go with that, but he is not an incompetent phony.

Yeah, I think of it like this: Feaster never had a sniff at another GM job. He’s doing non-hockey stuff for Tampa. Ward and GG probably never get another head coach job.

But could I see Treliving getting another GM role? Sure. As much as he hasn’t had success here, his list of pros and cons isn’t much different than any other GM.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Treliving is from rich businessmen family and knows how to act around billionaires and make them feel like he's sort of one of them, of similar mindset and values.

I personally have been getting Elizabeth Holmes type vibes from Treliving. He talks about how hard he works, he knows how to talk smart, but he doesn't really know what he's talking about. He talks about throughout search and hires Gully, for example. If you look at his interviews and about how he's going to build a team, and then look at what he's actually doing. It's seems like he has no clue.

I don't know about your particular take, but I do think everything boils down to the relationship with ownership.

Do the owners want to hear the truth, or do they want to hear what they want to hear?

I suspect it's the latter...and they want to believe that if they just get in then anything is possible [like it was that one time in these last 30 years].

Conversely, the truth has been evident since the COL series (and bloody obvious as more time passed) that we simply aren't good enough and need to take a step back to try to take two steps forward.

Originally Posted by Northendzone

my thought is that brad has been at the helm when some good decisions were made, and some bad decisions - the worst ones being with respect to coaches.

he seems to be ok at being a GM.

at the end of the day are the flames that much better than when he took over? there have been what two playoff rounds won in his tenure.

however, the other reality is that if they move on to someone new, then it becomes a process for the new person to get their people in place, and to reshape things to fit the new GM's vision.

Also, lets be real in that i would have to think that calgary is not a top destination for free agents, so it is hard to retool quickly.

Bolded is simply false. We've signed as many 4x4 or 5x5 team changing UFAs as anybody except NYR and PHI. Relying on UFAs is also a terrible strategy.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Bolded is simply false. We've signed as many 4x4 or 5x5 team changing UFAs as anybody except NYR and PHI. Relying on UFAs is also a terrible strategy.

We get middling guys but actual top UFAs don't sign here. What was the last one, Bouwmeester?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

We get middling guys but actual top UFAs don't sign here. What was the last one, Bouwmeester?

Markstrom

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Bonded

We get middling guys but actual top UFAs don't sign here. What was the last one, Bouwmeester?

Top UFA's rarely hit the market anymore.

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/the-1...-past-10-years

Here are the top deals by total $$. (Yes there are shorter higher AAV deals, but this was easy to find )

Mostly terrible values and not as big as people think $$ wise

Teams lock their players up

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Markstrom

Premium UFA’s that would help any team are pretty rare. The market for Markstrom wasn’t like the Jaybo or Tavares market. Or like what Stone would have been.

Brad Richards was one too which is rather funny in hindsight.

[powderjunkie]

5x5+

Panarin
Bobrovsky
Tavares
Hossa
Chara
Suter
Parise
Brad Richards
Pronger*
Niedermayer* (4 yrs)

Markstrom
Bouwmeester
Gonchar*
Brian Campbell
Rafalski
R Smyth
Briere
Drury
Cammalleri
Gaborik
Timonen
JVR
Gomez
Duchene
Yandle
Hayes
Myers
Souray
Radulov

Eriksson
Lucic
Okposo
Redden
Neal
Zuccarrello
Backes
Wideman
Jovanovski
Ladd
Sekera


*coming out of lost season...
Only the bolded are homerun successes leading directly to cups

This isn't quite comprehensive, but there's been maybe 10 cornerstone players change teams as UFAs in the cap era, and another 20-40 guys a tier or two below.

Markstrom is the 2nd biggest goalie to move (after Bob). He and Bouw are probably borderline tier 1.

A lot of these were in the 5ish years after that lockout and ended up as buyouts.


We've definitely had 2 of the top 30 (ie. more than our share), and another 2 of the next tiers (that tend to fail more often than not). Add Hudler, Brouwer, Frolik, Tanev in the 4x4+ realms

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Treliving is from rich businessmen family and knows how to act around billionaires and make them feel like he's sort of one of them, of similar mindset and values.

I personally have been getting Elizabeth Holmes type vibes from Treliving. He talks about how hard he works, he knows how to talk smart, but he doesn't really know what he's talking about. He talks about throughout search and hires Gully, for example. If you look at his interviews and about how he's going to build a team, and then look at what he's actually doing. It's seems like he has no clue.

I’m also not a fan of anyone who talks about how hard they work. But I’m not getting any massive fraudster vibes from the guy. Does he lower his voice for effect as well?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, I think of it like this: Feaster never had a sniff at another GM job. He’s doing non-hockey stuff for Tampa. Ward and GG probably never get another head coach job.

But could I see Treliving getting another GM role? Sure. As much as he hasn’t had success here, his list of pros and cons isn’t much different than any other GM.

Treliving would probably get another gig after the Flames. He's only 50 and he's not going to be defined as a terrible or even bad GM post Flames. He just didn't get the results over a long term. Chuck Fletcher got a 2nd opportunity and IMO he did a pretty mediocre job in Minnesota.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Treliving would probably get another gig after the Flames. He's only 50 and he's not going to be defined as a terrible or even bad GM post Flames. He just didn't get the results over a long term. Chuck Fletcher got a 2nd opportunity and IMO he did a pretty mediocre job in Minnesota.

Doug Risebrough got a 2nd GM job for crying out loud.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

The reality is Treliving failed. He had a couple of big-time trades, good RFA signing, but overall his tenure is a failed one.

You are right that he was hired to win a Stanley Cup, he did not accomplish that yet. But let's hire another GM because he "might" be better. Round and round we go....

A Sutter loss tonight and Ward has a better record as a coach.

Anyways I don't mind a GM change, but it's not going to solve any issues, if you think about it what does it accomplish?

Ken Holland has not done &&$#@ in Edmonton, they could have kept Chirelli in Edmonton, and nothing would have changed, Holland as yet to make any meaningful moves in Edmonton and this from a " hall of famer" executive.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Premium UFA’s that would help any team are pretty rare. The market for Markstrom wasn’t like the Jaybo or Tavares market. Or like what Stone would have been.

Brad Richards was one too which is rather funny in hindsight.

Markstrom was, bar none, the best goalie out there, and the best goalie available in a number of years. Lots of teams could have used him.

It’s laughable now, but the Hockey News had James Neal as the #5 UFA in 2018.