Alberta Politics Thread

[Locke]

I always love the: "We must abandon Fossil fuels!"

Okay..this is your assertion, now propose your solution.

"Wind! Water! Earth! Fire!"

Okay, those are the planeteers, they arent a solution unless you propose that we enslave them to turn a large wheel to generate electricity? Or burn them for warmth?

All of these environmentalists come in on the extreme and make all of these claims and then mysteriously vanish when people engage their theories for the purpose of coming up with solution.

"We have to get away from all fossil fuels!"

"Okay, how? And then what?"

"Ummm...I dont know, thats um, like, your problem man, but carbon is, like, um, bad. And, um, stuff."

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Locke

I always love the: "We must abandon Fossil fuels!"

Okay..this is your assertion, now propose your solution.

"Wind! Water! Earth! Fire!"

Okay, those are the planeteers, they arent a solution unless you propose that we enslave them to turn a large wheel to generate electricity? Or burn them for warmth?

All of these environmentalists come in on the extreme and make all of these claims and then mysteriously vanish when people engage their theories for the purpose of coming up with solution.

"We have to get away from all fossil fuels!"

"Okay, how? And then what?"

"Ummm...I dont know, thats um, like, your problem man, but carbon is, like, um, bad. And, um, stuff."

Yeah. There are no solid or potential alternatives to fossil fuels as a replacement for energy generation.

You can't use the word "All" when your point doesn't actually include "All" the people.

[Resolute 14]

Occupy Calgary already found the solution, Locke. We need to use our mighty rivers to generate hydro power.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

"We have to get away from all fossil fuels!"

"Okay, how? And then what?"

"Ummm...I dont know, thats um, like, your problem man, but carbon is, like, um, bad. And, um, stuff."

I find a more typical response these days is:

"We have the technology already! We could be running everything on wind and solar power if it wasn't for Big Oil suppressing the technology and buying politicians."

I'm all for alternatives to fossil fuels. But we're still going to be using them 30 years from now, so let's look at the economic realities around a practical transition, instead of demonizing an entire industry and getting hysterical about conspiracy theories and DOOM DOOM DOOM.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I find a more typical response these days is:

"We have the technology already! We could be running everything on wind and solar power if it wasn't for Big Oil suppressing the technology and buying politicians."

Well, it's kinda true...

I'm all for alternatives to fossil fuels. But we're still going to be using them 30 years from now, so let's look at the economic realities around a practical transition, instead of demonizing an entire industry and getting hysterical about conspiracy theories and DOOM DOOM DOOM.

We are still going be using them 30 years from now, And we should, for making stuff. The fact that it is finite and we use it for making pretty much everything, makes burning it for fuel all the more stupid.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

"We have the technology already! We could be running everything on wind and solar power if it wasn't for Big Oil suppressing the technology and buying politicians."

You come across as just as blinded, though. "Big oil" does suppress tech and buys politicians. Lobbying is still very much legal, and "big oil" does a lot of it, far more than all environmental groups combined. I'm not a believer in rainbows, unicorns, and a quick transition from oil, but your mock quote shows your bias more than it does the "other".

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Occupy Calgary already found the solution, Locke. We need to use our mighty rivers to generate hydro power.

People that think 'Big Oil' are suppressing the required technology are just conspiracy theorists that think 'The Science is In' and that vaccines cause autism and all that, Big Oil would have to have bought off literally everyone. Sure, they might lobby for some of it, but they arent hiding future tech in a bunker somewhere.

We'd need to pave Alberta with Solar Panels and then plant Wind Turbines on top of them and we'd still come nowhere close and that doesnt even account for the sheer volume of oil and oil-related products required to construct all of that.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Locke

People that think 'Big Oil' are suppressing the required technology are just conspiracy theorists that think 'The Science is In' and that vaccines cause autism and all that, Big Oil would have to have bought off literally everyone. Sure, they might lobby for some of it, but they arent hiding future tech in a bunker somewhere.

We'd need to pave Alberta with Solar Panels and then plant Wind Turbines on top of them and we'd still come nowhere close and that doesnt even account for the sheer volume of oil and oil-related products required to construct all of that.

If I were in "big oil" and wanted to suppress technology, I might lobby a federal government to cut certain science programs that might show some of my practices in a negative light.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

If I were in "big oil" and wanted to suppress technology, I might lobby a federal government to cut certain science programs that might show some of my practices in a negative light.

Sure. I buy that. But:

Which Oil company? All of them? The 'Big Oil' Cabal?

What Government? Which Country? Which politicians? In what parties? In exchange for what?

Seems like it would require an enormous effort and outlay.

Just as there are people with a vested interest in retaining oil use at its current levels there equally are people with a vested interest in diversifying our energy supply.

[Fuzz]

Didn't you hear? There was a car that ran on pure water, and BIG OIL bought the patents and shut it down. Super evil.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

"Big Oil" invests a significant amount of money into alternative energies. "Big Oil" is preparing to become "Big Energy" as we transition to a healthier balance between fossil fuel consumption and alternative energies.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sure. I buy that. But:

Which Oil company? All of them? The 'Big Oil' Cabal?

What Government? Which Country? Which politicians? In what parties? In exchange for what?

Seems like it would require an enormous effort and outlay.

Just as there are people with a vested interest in retaining oil use at its current levels there equally are people with a vested interest in diversifying our energy supply.

So we're back to talking about a one world government conspiracy working hand in hand with a evil oil cabal all on the same page, pulling the wool over the eyes of all media, except for the super media who work on their blogs in their moms basement.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Didn't you hear? There was a car that ran on pure water, and BIG OIL bought the patents and shut it down. Super evil.

And in the 70s there was a carburetor that got 50 miles per gallon and thats never been seen again.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So we're back to talking about a one world government conspiracy working hand in hand with a evil oil cabal all on the same page, pulling the wool over the eyes of all media, except for the super media who work on their blogs in their moms basement.

And then at the same time: in exchange for what?

If they're suppressing these amazing technologies they're going to be just as screwed as the rest of us when the tap runs dry and all of their profits during high times are going to count for jack.

It doesnt seem like this would be in anyone's best long-term interest.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think the fact that there are now electric cars goes against the theory of the whole evil oil industry or science suppression by the government hand in hand with Oil.

Frankly if the Auto Industry had a carburetor that got 50 miles to the gallon for example, the Oil Companies wouldn't be able to stop it from hitting the market because Auto would be putting them into cars and charging $20,000 extra for a part worth $100.00 and people would buy it like a sponge even if the part had to be replaced every 50,000 miles

Its like people putting deposits down on a car 2 or 3 years before they get them.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

"Big Oil" invests a significant amount of money into alternative energies. "Big Oil" is preparing to become "Big Energy" as we transition to a healthier balance between fossil fuel consumption and alternative energies.

The funniest party about Big Oil paranoia is the implicit assumption that whatever replaces oil will be owned and run by socially-conscious heroes who will be happy with no more than the minimum profit necessary to keep up their good work. Big business certainly won't be involved.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

"Big Oil" invests a significant amount of money into alternative energies. "Big Oil" is preparing to become "Big Energy" as we transition to a healthier balance between fossil fuel consumption and alternative energies.

I really hope this is the case, especially of our own Calgary-based companies. Is there any evidence of this yet? I've heard international companies like Total and others are positioning themselves that way, but I haven't heard anything about companies that are Calgary-based. I hope we start future-proofing ourselves soon. It feels like the future is electric, and (cleaner) electricity production, transmission is where the opportunity is.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I really hope this is the case, especially of our own Calgary-based companies. Is there any evidence of this yet? I've heard international companies like Total and others are positioning themselves that way, but I haven't heard anything about companies that are Calgary-based. I hope we start future-proofing ourselves soon.

That seems to depend on how much their home governments are offering in subsidies for companies to farm.

It feels like the future is electric, and (cleaner) electricity production, transmission is where the opportunity is.

Maybe, but given the continued PR releases are about how cheap solar and/or wind and/or electricity storage will get in the future, by far the smartest thing to do is to wait for them to arrive and buy it then, rather than spend resources on something that isn't competitive today and will, based on the predictions of the intermittent renewables industry, be hopelessly obsoleted in a "few" years.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

If I were in "big oil" and wanted to suppress technology, I might lobby a federal government to cut certain science programs that might show some of my practices in a negative light.

HOLY F### this thread just took a turn for crazy town.

[Cappy]

I worked for a "big oil" company in Canada at one point in time. They certainly arent looking to suppress energy technologies that they could make money off of.

They are certainly investing in new tech, but for the most part, the money isn't there yet. The company owned some wind tech, but the margins were so non-existent it wasnt going to lead to a mass transition.

Unless the government wants to move the nation's energy policy toward Germany, for example (people look at their commitment to alt-energy but many fail to realise the immense amount of money the government has forked over in subsidies to lower the cost and make it more palpable) companies will continue to produce oil and gas while prepping for the future in alt-energy.

If there really was a game-changing technology out there, there is surely a nation/big corp that would be willing to pay for it. Think of all the countries beholden to oil companies petro-states. You dont think the EU would love to get off the teet of Russia?