ISIS militants attack and take over Iraqi northern city of Mosul

[Itse]

SDF is making gains. Most notable is the taking of Tishrin oil fields from ISIS, which has produced in the ballpark of $100.000/day for the ISIS.

Also of note is that there was little resistance by ISIS at Tishrin, which implies strongly that despite the posturing ISIS troops are actually starting to be either quite weak, severely demoralized or both.

The formation of SDF seems to also have alleviated the problem that the otherwise effective Kurdish forces have been reluctant to advance into Sunni territory, for many obvious reasons. The new joint Kurdish/Arab forces seem to be vastly preferable to the local Sunnis in comparison to ISIS. That should make fighting ISIS much less complicated.

So as far as the ground war in Syria goes, there doesn't really seem to be much need to do anything that is not being done already. In fact things like sending in Western ground troops could actually do more harm, by revitalizing the ISIS narrative of a clash between West and Islam.

The one thing that would help though is if Turkey would stop attacking and otherwise antagonizing the Kurds. The West should really start putting some pressure on Turkey on that topic.

EDIT: Correction: obviously the SDF can only solve problems in Syria. That still leaves Iraq to be solved.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Itse

SDF is making gains. Most notable is the taking of Tishrin oil fields from ISIS, which has produced in the ballpark of $100.000/day for the ISIS.
.

Just wondering, but once ISIS controls the oil, how do they get the oil to market to profit off it? It would seem to me that anyone accepting oil from ISIS would be supporting ISIS and countries would be seeking justice.

The one thing that would help though is if Turkey would stop attacking and otherwise antagonizing the Kurds. The West should really start putting some pressure on Turkey on that topic.

Some Kurdish groups are recognized by Canada and other countries as terrorist groups.. Turkey shouldn't be attacking all Kurdish groups obviously, but ones that are terrorists should be fair game still whether they are also fighting against ISIS or not.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just wondering, but once ISIS controls the oil, how do they get the oil to market to profit off it? It would seem to me that anyone accepting oil from ISIS would be supporting ISIS and countries would be seeking justice.



Some Kurdish groups are recognized by Canada and other countries as terrorist groups.. Turkey shouldn't be attacking all Kurdish groups obviously, but ones that are terrorists should be fair game still whether they are also fighting against ISIS or not.

I remember reading somewhere that Turkey is a huge importer of illegal Isis Oil.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just wondering, but once ISIS controls the oil, how do they get the oil to market to profit off it? It would seem to me that anyone accepting oil from ISIS would be supporting ISIS and countries would be seeking justice.



Some Kurdish groups are recognized by Canada and other countries as terrorist groups.. Turkey shouldn't be attacking all Kurdish groups obviously, but ones that are terrorists should be fair game still whether they are also fighting against ISIS or not.

The black market for oil is quite large. It's common in many places for people to buy oil off the back of trucks. In corrupt systems it's also possible for smugglers to get stolen/illegal oil into the mainstream supply.

Turkey does not seem to be discriminating in its attacks. It's not really possible to. The PKK is the main Kurdish party listed as a terrorist organization, mostly due to NATO commitments. This party is pretty intermingled with rebel groups in Northern Syria. Therefore, the Turks can bomb the rebels indiscriminately under the guise of attacking the PKK.

Turkey's fears here are pretty genuine though. If the Kurds establish a state in Norther Syria, they are likely to then turn on Turkey and attempt to control the areas with a Kurdish majority, which is probably about 1/5 of Turkey.

It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens with both the Kurds and Turkey after the conflict with ISIS settles. Traditionally, the Kurdish nationalist movement has been a socialist party allied to the Soviets, and the Turks have been a democratic country allied to the West. However, both have undergone some pretty dramatic political shifts, and those alliances don't make as much sense anymore.

Turkey remains a strong force in the fight against Russian expansionism. To see them totally shift camps to the Russian side, would be a pretty big blow for NATO. Eventually, the West is going to have to turn on the Kurds for that reason.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I remember reading somewhere that Turkey is a huge importer of illegal Isis Oil.

That's well known yes. They also sell weapons to the ISIS and conduct joint military operations with them against the rebels.

As for Turkey bombing terrorists, well that's highly debatable. The PKK is really your prototypical example of "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". There has for a long time been notable pressure in the West and even in Turkey to remove the PKK from the list of terrorist organizations to help build relationships and peace.

While the PKK clearly has its history of violence, for the most part the Kurd-Arab relations in Turkey have been rather peaceful in recent times. (Relatively.) The PKK has actually given up on the idea of an independent Kurdistan for now.

As some might remember Turkey has its own internal problems. The authoritarian president Erdugan has according to many been turning the country continuously less democratic and clamping down on the political opposition with police and military violence.

The Kurds in Turkey are a part of the liberal/left opposition to Erdugan. (The left has a notable number of Kurdish MP:s for example.) The Kurds across the border are also supporting the Turkish left wing opposition financially.

This is why Turkeys president Erdugan is bombing Kurdish forces in Syria. He is hitting who sees as his political enemy. He has also probably deliberately shelled Kurdish civilian villages, although it seems this ended as quickly as it started probably because of international attention.

So, Erdugan is bombing the Kurds in Syria because they support his democratic opposition in Turkey. He probably would love to re-ignite racial tensions in Turkey and get PKK more active, as he could then use those issues to further attack his local opposition.

The obvious problem here of course is that if the ethical tensions in Turkey do rise again, this could also tear apart the SDF and essentially save ISIS. (Which already highly dependant on Turkey in many ways, as pointed out in the Guardian article below.

[Itse]

Blackall also is correct.

Anything in the Middle-East is a long story with many angles

EDIT: The Guardian on the same topic of what Erdugan is doing and why. Probably a better source

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...P=share_btn_fb

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Itse

Blackall also is correct.

Anything in the Middle-East is a long story with many angles

EDIT: The Guardian on the same topic of what Erdugan is doing and why. Probably a better source

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...P=share_btn_fb

The middle east is ultra complicated right now.

You have Turkey, Iran, Saudia Arabia, Israel, and formerly Syria and Iraq all as major military powers. Egypt and Jordan are lesser powers. Pretty much all of them hate each other. Meanwhile, the West and Russia, for strategic and economic reasons, are attempting to maintain and establish relationships with these groups.

Until recently you had alliances between the groups: Israel/Turkey, Egypt/SA/Jordan, and Syria/Iran. These have all broken down recently. Meanwhile the conflict between Russia and the West has accelerated and Yemen, Iraq, and Syria have all become open battlefronts.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by blankall

The middle east is ultra complicated right now.

You have Turkey, Iran, Saudia Arabia, Israel, and formerly Syria and Iraq all as major military powers. Egypt and Jordan are lesser powers. Pretty much all of them hate each other. Meanwhile, the West and Russia, for strategic and economic reasons, are attempting to maintain and establish relationships with these groups.

Until recently you had alliances between the groups: Israel/Turkey, Egypt/SA/Jordan, and Syria/Iran. These have all broken down recently. Meanwhile the conflict between Russia and the West has accelerated and Yemen, Iraq, and Syria have all become open battlefronts.

Way too much hatred, all the makings of WWIII right in front of us.

[Itse]

Reports of ISIS executing it's own for running from battle. There are other reports like this elsewehere. The hardcore elements trying to keep the less devoted in line with extreme measures.

I take it as another sign that their morale is seriously cracking.

http://aranews.net/2015/11/isis-exec...yezidi-region/

some 73 ISIS militants, who apparently fled the fighting with the Peshmerga forces in the Yezidi region of Shingal few days ago, were executed

Earlier this week, the terror group executed a number of its local Iraqi militants in Anbar province west of the country on charges of high treason and dissidence from the group, an eyewitness told ARA News on the condition of anonymity.

EDIT:
This is in Iraq btw. The Peshmerga are Kurdish forces in Iraq.

[CaptainCrunch]

You guys might find this interesting

http://www.cracked.com/blog/isis-wan...heir-magazine/

[Harry Lime]

China Says it Faces Extremism, Too

The man in question who was killed considered himself a thrill seeker, and put himself in harms way. As far as I can tell, no one is attacking China.

Whatever, China.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-sa...too-1447940617

[blankall]

Originally Posted by T@T

Way too much hatred, all the makings of WWIII right in front of us.

I honestly don't think so. The attitude towards war has changed dramatically since WWII. If you want to invade a country, you do so economically and culturally. The people in power have way too much vested in maintaining stability.

It's groups like ISIS who don't care about stability that want this state of total warfare. They can't really expand the way countries used to, as they are just to harsh and so many people flee for more stable areas.

[Itse]

Double post.

[Itse]

Russia has shown that expansion by force is still quite possible.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Itse

Russia has shown that expansion by force is still quite possible.

Fair point.

I'd still argue slightly different though. The areas Russia invaded already had a majority ethinic/linguistic Russian majority. They were harvesting seeds they'd planted in the Soviet era where they were actively moving Russian populations into outlying areas.

[Itse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6741146.html

This is well worth reading. One of those views you're unlikely to hear in mainstream media, as its significance is not easily packaged and measured.

It is sometimes almost comical how rarely we talk of the issue of completely arbitrary national borders, and how little they sometimes mean.

[Itse]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11...-isis-brigade/

The rare suicide bombing which actually makes a lot of people in the world smile.

The Nov. 15 bombing came at a top-level meeting of the Yarmouk Martyrs Brigade, a key ISIS militia known for its bloody and vicious hold over parts of the Golan Heights. Six of the group’s top men were killed, including Muhammad "Abu Ali" al-Baridi, the shadowy head of the group who went by the nickname “The Uncle.”

Al Nusra Front, Al Qaeda’s Syrian affiliate, quickly took credit

While ISIS and Al Nusra fight common enemies as well as each other north of Damascus, the two terror groups are in an all-out war south of the capital, along the Israeli border. It is in that part of the hugely complex Syrian conflict where the bitter infighting between the Sunni Muslim terrorist groups is most deadly and direct.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Itse

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6741146.html

This is well worth reading. One of those views you're unlikely to hear in mainstream media, as its significance is not easily packaged and measured.

It is sometimes almost comical how rarely we talk of the issue of completely arbitrary national borders, and how little they sometimes mean.

Not sure I really buy much of this. They are taking over cities and territories just like anyone else. They may not follow traditional borders but they are trying to create their own.

[Johnny199r]

I watched a program tonight on Isis on CNN. A reporter who interviewed many Isis members said that their end goal was the same in every interview, to draw the U.S into a ground war.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I watched a program tonight on Isis on CNN. A reporter who interviewed many Isis members said that their end goal was the same in every interview, to draw the U.S into a ground war.

Wish in one hand eat a 500 lb bomb in the other.