2013 NFL regular season thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

There's talk White may be shut down for the year as well. Regardless they really have no other options, which both helps and hurts White's value. No one to take attention away hurts, no one else to throw to helps. So its a wash.

[chemgear]

Probably bad. Defenses won't have to worry about JJ at all but I'd be more worried about his injury for now.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

As bad as that trade looked right away and as much as it seemed like a Browns being the Browns thing, its looking like they fleeced the Colts for a 1st round pick. Richardson is averaging 3 yards a carry still with the Colts.

There's no way the Colts beat the Seahawks without Richardson. He has brought the Colts to borderline contender status, whereas they'd be nowhere near that with Donald Brown and Kerwynn Williams as their running backs. I think it's ludicrous to say that the Colts were fleeced on that trade. The pick is going to be late in the first round so it's not like their trading the Buccaneers first rounder.

[Sylvanfan]

This years Falcons remind me of the Chiefs from 2004. Finding ways to lose a lot of close games, weak defence, and making a play or two every game that costs them. At this point they look like a 7-9 team, and thats only because their Division looks pretty bad.

Really the NFC playoff race could be pretty thin. I think New Orleans walks away with the South. No one in the NFC East is good, but one of them wins the Division, and I still think Dallas is the best of that bunch. The North could be interesting, but ultimately that is still Green Bay's Division, with Chicago and Detroit challenging for a WC spot. I think San Fran nd Seattle will be at the top of the West, with both heading to the playoffs. I guess Arizona might stick around but I can see them going 0-4 against the 49'ers and Seahawks and essentially knocked back to 7-9. So really it's between Chicago and Detroit for a WC spot, Seattle and San Fran in the West, and likely Dallas and Philly in the East.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

There's talk White may be shut down for the year as well. Regardless they really have no other options, which both helps and hurts White's value. No one to take attention away hurts, no one else to throw to helps. So its a wash.

I wonder if Atlanta could be a candidate for Kenny Britt if they still think they have a chance to take a shot at a wildcard spot.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Disgraceful. Absolutely, positively disgraceful.

“A fan went to his house and told him off,” said the source, adding that another person “took pictures of his family,” which were allegedly posted on Facebook. Fortunately, neither Schaub nor anyone in his family was hurt.

The irate fans left on their own accord before police could respond, and it’s believed Schaub and the Texans contacted NFL Security which asked for assistance from the Houston Police Department after the incident, according to the source

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/10/...b-at-his-home/

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Disgraceful. Absolutely, positively disgraceful.



http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/10/...b-at-his-home/

Jeepers. Sounds like Regina

[Bobblehead]

Yeah, it is game. Too many people take it way too far.


Edit: If they want, they can have David Carr back. I believe the Raiders recently gave him a workout so they may want to hurry.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

There's no way the Colts beat the Seahawks without Richardson. He has brought the Colts to borderline contender status,

With his 3 yards per carry?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

There's no way the Colts beat the Seahawks without Richardson. He has brought the Colts to borderline contender status, whereas they'd be nowhere near that with Donald Brown and Kerwynn Williams as their running backs. I think it's ludicrous to say that the Colts were fleeced on that trade. The pick is going to be late in the first round so it's not like their trading the Buccaneers first rounder.

You realize the guy the Browns picked up off the street (30 something Wilis McGahee) has more yards rushing since the Colts acquired Richardson than Richardson does right? Richardson might be a good player, but he was never worth the top-5 pick the Browns used on him, and he certainly isn't worth the first rounder the Colts gave up for him. The Colts could find a lot of guys who can run for 3 yards a carry of the street, as evidence from Willis McGahee. Its just a terrible overpayment, and next year when you can't draft a player of need with your first rounder, you'll think its an even worse trade.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

You realize the guy the Browns picked up off the street (30 something Wilis McGahee) has more yards rushing since the Colts acquired Richardson than Richardson does right? Richardson might be a good player, but he was never worth the top-5 pick the Browns used on him, and he certainly isn't worth the first rounder the Colts gave up for him. The Colts could find a lot of guys who can run for 3 yards a carry of the street, as evidence from Willis McGahee. Its just a terrible overpayment, and next year when you can't draft a player of need with your first rounder, you'll think its an even worse trade.

It's a whole lot easier for McGahee to run for the Browns than it was for Trent because Trent was the only real option for them and now that Hoyer showed that he can win games teams would rather let McGahee try to beat them. He has also helped open up throwing lanes for Luck and he is a much better blocker than any of the Colts other RBs. This trade helps them compete for a super bowl before Luck is on his $20 million a year deal whereas a late first wouldn't.

Originally Posted by troutman

With his 3 yards per carry?

Sorry forgot YPC was the only stat that matters.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Its still a terrible trade. For value you could have signed a guy off the street and gotten comparable production. I don't know what the Colts biggest hole is, but when they are supposed to pick next year there's gonna be a player available that you probably want that you won't get. Running backs are luxuries, not necessities. The Vikings have one of the best ever and hows that working out for them?

And YPC isn't the only stat that matters, except when you trade a first round pick for a running back. Who trades a first round pick for a guy who can't pick up a first down with 3 runs? I don't care if he's the best blocker ever, if that's what you need put a fullback back there. The only first round pick recently to actually be worth it is Doug Martin, and even he needs competent QB play or teams can stack to the box to stop him. Look at all the recent Super Bowl winners and find me the runners who were high picks. Its almost always late rounders or guys off the street.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Its still a terrible trade. For value you could have signed a guy off the street and gotten comparable production. I don't know what the Colts biggest hole is, but when they are supposed to pick next year there's gonna be a player available that you probably want that you won't get. Running backs are luxuries, not necessities. The Vikings have one of the best ever and hows that working out for them?

And YPC isn't the only stat that matters, except when you trade a first round pick for a running back. Who trades a first round pick for a guy who can't pick up a first down with 3 runs? I don't care if he's the best blocker ever, if that's what you need put a fullback back there. The only first round pick recently to actually be worth it is Doug Martin, and even he needs competent QB play or teams can stack to the box to stop him. Look at all the recent Super Bowl winners and find me the runners who were high picks. Its almost always late rounders or guys off the street.

Teams win the Super Bowl with a good running game not superstars at RB. This is because of the salary cap. Getting Trent Richardson at 2 million a year is an absolute steal no matter how you look at it. The Colts 24th overall pick from last season is Bjoern Werner who will have a higher cap number in 2 years than Trent Richardson who will be a bigger help than whoever they take around that spot this year. Keep in mind he has only been with the team for 3 weeks, it's not like he had a full training camp to get in tune with Luck and the rest of the offense.

[Pagal4321]

Each team values different skilled positions. While Browns fans can say the Colts overpaid, the Colts needed a running back after Ballard went down. They focused on young running backs with entry level deals, as they approached the Vikings about Toby Gerhart as well.

Look at the Colts offense now, they have a pretty solid core of young skilled position players and they seem to be doing pretty well for themselves over there.
Browns fans probably did get an over payment from the Colts for a RB that wasn't in their plans. A win/win situation for both teams in my eyes.

Comparing McGahee's output to Richardon's output in the first three weeks is comparing apples to oranges.

[Senator Clay Davis]

So if Richardson doesn't look good because he didn't have training camp and time to gel, why is Willis "Off the Street" McGahee doing the same thing with the same excuse? Its about value. The Browns erroneously traded up to get Trent Richardson last year. Had they stayed put, they could have had Ryan Tannehill and Doug Martin both. But they overplayed things because they thought Richardson was elite. Clearly they were wrong. He's a good running back, which you can find in rounds 3-7 yearly. The running game has been so devalued by the slant towards the passing game with the rules now that running backs value is even lower. Indeed at present there are only 5 backs averaging more than 80 yards a game.

Basically the Colts could get comparable value to Richardson for free and kept their first round pick and added more value to the roster in the future. His contract value isn't relevant because a guy off the street will cost you around the league minimum for comparable value. Richardson can still improve, but he has to be averaging 4.5 yards a carry or more for this trade to not be considered a loss and a bad one at that for the Colts.

And I also think Alabama running backs are just destined to bust because they play behind a stacked, elite offense line in college which heavily skews their numbers. A lot of running backs could look great behind that consistently great offensive line.

[Pagal4321]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

So if Richardson doesn't look good because he didn't have training camp and time to gel, why is Willis "Off the Street" McGahee doing the same thing with the same excuse? Its about value. The Browns erroneously traded up to get Trent Richardson last year. Had they stayed put, they could have had Ryan Tannehill and Doug Martin both. But they overplayed things because they thought Richardson was elite. Clearly they were wrong. He's a good running back, which you can find in rounds 3-7 yearly. The running game has been so devalued by the slant towards the passing game with the rules now that running backs value is even lower. Indeed at present there are only 5 backs averaging more than 80 yards a game.

Basically the Colts could get comparable value to Richardson for free and kept their first round pick and added more value to the roster in the future. His contract value isn't relevant because a guy off the street will cost you around the league minimum for comparable value. Richardson can still improve, but he has to be averaging 4.5 yards a carry or more for this trade to not be considered a loss and a bad one at that for the Colts.

And I also think Alabama running backs are just destined to bust because they play behind a stacked, elite offense line in college which heavily skews their numbers. A lot of running backs could look great behind that consistently great offensive line.

Hindsight, what a useful tool for football GM's. You just go on tirades about everything don't you?

[Senator Clay Davis]

No...its just obvious the Browns made a mistake trading up to get Richardson in the first place when nobody else was coming to get him. The Vikings were taking Kalil and nobody else was trading up to get Richardson. The Browns ended up drafting a QB and a RB in the first round anyways. Its not a hindsight stretch to just change the RB and QB they got. They could have stayed at #4 and took Tannehill and gotten Martin at 22 (and kept a 4th round pick) and they'd be in better shape then the two firsts they took who are unlikely to be on the roster even 2 seasons later.

And the Browns actually found a way to mitigate their mistake quickly. If anything I'm praising the Browns for realizing their mistake and actually getting not just good value but incredible value back. Again after the trade happened most people (myself included) mocked the Browns but with a bit more evaluation its looking they got a terrific deal. Unless Richardson becomes a top 5 back they win this trade going away. 3 yards a carry is terrible for even a mediocre running back let alone one taken in the top 5 (and that's his career average, not just his average with the Colts). Richardson really needs to become a much better runner for this to not be a terrible trade from Indy's perspective, one that could get even worse if there ends up being a player they could really use available where they would have been picking next year. Running backs have little to no value in todays NFL, and the Colts gave up a first round pick, one of the NFLs most valuable commodities, to get one.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by troutman

With his 3 yards per carry?

Well who has he played against so far, the 49'ers, Seahawks, and Jaguars. Two of those teams are pretty stout against the run. The Colts are 3-0 since they acquired him, and have been able to get a few rushing attempts. In particular being able to keep the ball moving against the 49'ers was key, and a few runs here and there helped keep Luck alive to make the plays he needed against Seattle. I don't think their offensive line is particularly great, so the low YPC does somewhat show that. Granted, the Colts can't keep a RB healthy...we'll see how much longer Richardson lasts.

I think Cleveland made a very good deal for themselves in moving him out, as I can't see any NFL team being willing to deal a 2nd rounder for him after this season. Which is why I suggested as much when the deal was first made. But the Colts wanted a guy to help them now and decided to pay the price to go after Richardson. Maybe they paid too much...who knows, I think it's tough to critique the Colts too much as they are 4-1 right now. But I do believe all the people who thought that was such an awful deal for the Browns may be seeing that they sold him at the highest value they could get for him given the situation.

[OILFAN #81]

Trade was good both ways. Browns got a 1st round pick probably in the 24-32 range and the Colts got a 22 year old RB who was drafted 3rd overall a few years ago. With Ballard injured prior to the trade and Bradshaw having injury troubles prior to the trade (he is now out for the year), it was a no brainer for Indy. Richardson and Donald Brown are now the 2 RB's for the rest of the year. He's at least made the other team respect the Colts' running game with his presence. It gives Luck another option on top of the Wayne/Hilton air attack.

Both teams did well in the trade.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Aldon Smith was charged with felony gun charges today http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/97...medium=twitter