Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[Quincy Egg]

Originally Posted by MattyC

How many of those gang homicides were using guns?

The incredible majority?

That is my point. Degenerate thugs are responsible for the majority of gun related homicides.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Quincy Egg

That is my point. Degenerate thugs are responsible for the majority of gun related homicides.

Do you think it's a reasonable chain of logic to assume that if these gangs had no access to guns within the nation, that the amount of homicides might be lower? Or would we just have the same amount of people dead in the crossfire of inter-gang knife throwing battles?

[ernie]

There is also one other thing that is different between a knife and gun in addition to the lethality of each weapon....killing with a knife is a more personal act than standing several feet away with a gun. I can all but guarantee that there are numerous people that could not commit the crimes they did if they had to do is 6 inches away in a personal manner. And typically, of course, such an attack is unlikely to leave the number of corpses behind.

People can trot out the old stand by arguments of the NRA. They've been shown to be nonsensical and often based on complete misinterpretation of data over and over again. There is no point in arguing against it any more on a discussion forum.

[Quincy Egg]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Do you think it's a reasonable chain of logic to assume that if these gangs had no access to guns within the nation, that the amount of homicides might be lower? Or would we just have the same amount of people dead in the crossfire of inter-gang knife throwing battles?

Why should law abiding gun owners be punished for the actions of some?

[nik-]

haha what are you guys doing? I mean what's your end goal.

Some people have just drank the blood of Kali and are true believers. Don't waste your time.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by ernie

There is also one other thing that is different between a knife and gun in addition to the lethality of each weapon....killing with a knife is a more personal act than standing several feet away with a gun. I can all but guarantee that there are numerous people that could not commit the crimes they did if they had to do is 6 inches away in a personal manner. And typically, of course, such an attack is unlikely to leave the number of corpses behind.

People can trot out the old stand by arguments of the NRA. They've been shown to be nonsensical and often based on complete misinterpretation of data over and over again. There is no point in arguing against it any more on a discussion forum.

Not to mention those that are accidental deaths by guns.

I doubt there has ever been a toddler who has accidentally killed someone with a knife, and if there has, I'd be willing to bet I can count them on one hand.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Not to mention those that are accidental deaths by guns.

I doubt there has ever been a toddler who has accidentally killed someone with a knife, and if there has, I'd be willing to bet I can count them on one hand.

Indeed. I was ignoring the increased lethality for the most part as that should be understood without any sort of argument. Which, as covered, isn't a shock given that one item is designed exclusively to kill. Alas, we continue to see things like knives and cars can kill too!

There should be zero reason to ever object to magazine restrictions, restrictions on types of guns etc. These are not things important to hunting and indeed are not things important to defense of property and self. I'm not even against handguns because in this area if you are hunting you may want that handgun to take out the copperhead or cottonmouth that is about to tag you.

As I mentioned earlier the thing preventing it is whenever something is to be changed the US always goes down the slippery slope route. No we can't allow two guys to marry because then they'll want to marry another 10 guys at once! Or a dog! All hell will break loose! They are tied to the idea a constitution can't change which is complete crap and somehow they all forget about ammendments etc. A constitution is a living document. As a democracy, if it isn't...well you're doing it wrong.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Quincy Egg

Why should law abiding gun owners be punished for the actions of some?

How is banning guns a punishment?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Quincy Egg

Why should law abiding gun owners be punished for the actions of some?

Why not just answer my question?

And because the actions of some are killing innocent people at alarming rates. Life is littered with things we can't do because a few people ruin it.

Why can't I go 150 on the highway just because some other people caused accidents?

[Igottago]

Any place where this can take place has seriously lost the plot on how it views guns.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7505422.html

A Georgia man openly carried a fully loaded AR-15 semiautomatic rifle into Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, the busiest in the world.
Jim Cooley was armed with the weapon -- complete with an extended capacity 100-round drum -- when he went to drop his daughter off for a flight last Friday. Following the enactment of new state legislation in 2014, it's actually legal to carry a rifle in the open in the airport, so long as the holder doesn't attempt to pass through airport security.

Can you imagine this guy was black? Or better yet, a brown (muslim looking) guy?

Anyhow, I would never want to live in a place where people are allowed to bring heavy weaponry to an airport.

This is how you know gun support in the US has just become plain STUPID.

[Coach]

Just have the guards shoot the guy.

"Sorry, you weren't wearing your 'Good Guy' sticker".

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Just have the guards shoot the guy.

"Sorry, you weren't wearing your 'Good Guy' sticker".

"Good Guy Sticker" = white skin.

I am of the belief if that guy is dressed in traditional Middle Eastern garb, he's toast.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Oh yes, the age old gun supporter argument that other things can kill people too. Yeah sure, but those things have other primary purposes. A knife is a tool with a lot of other purposes than stabbing people. I need a knife to make dinner or cut open a box. The use case for a car is obvious.

What's the primary purpose of a gun? To kill or practice killing. There is nothing else you are going to do with it. It's a tool explicitly designed for killing. So enough with bringing up other items, there is no comparison.

A firearm is a tool as well and just like all tools, a subset of the population will misuse that tool. If you look at the 2013 numbers, vehicle fatalities were 10.345/100,000; firearm fatalities were 10.64/100,000. Almost identical. It goes down even further to 3.55/100,000 if you only count homicide.

Firearms have plenty of legal, recognized purposes. Hunting, target shooting, competition, self defense (yes, even in Canada) and collecting. All legal and all uses that occur more frequently than misuse.

[Tiger]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

A firearm is a tool as well and just like all tools, a subset of the population will misuse that tool. If you look at the 2013 numbers, vehicle fatalities were 10.345/100,000; firearm fatalities were 10.64/100,000. Almost identical. It goes down even further to 3.55/100,000 if you only count homicide.

Firearms have plenty of legal, recognized purposes. Hunting, target shooting, competition, self defense (yes, even in Canada) and collecting. All legal and all uses that occur more frequently than misuse.

Explain to me how a gun is self defence without breaking any laws of how the gun should be stored and handled?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

A firearm is a tool as well and just like all tools, a subset of the population will misuse that tool. If you look at the 2013 numbers, vehicle fatalities were 10.345/100,000; firearm fatalities were 10.64/100,000. Almost identical. It goes down even further to 3.55/100,000 if you only count homicide.

Firearms have plenty of legal, recognized purposes. Hunting, target shooting, competition, self defense (yes, even in Canada) and collecting. All legal and all uses that occur more frequently than misuse.

Did you just argue that in a feasible contrast, guns are used to shoot human beings with the same proportional frequency that knives are used to stab them?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

A firearm is a tool as well and just like all tools, a subset of the population will misuse that tool. If you look at the 2013 numbers, vehicle fatalities were 10.345/100,000; firearm fatalities were 10.64/100,000. Almost identical. It goes down even further to 3.55/100,000 if you only count homicide.

Firearms have plenty of legal, recognized purposes. Hunting, target shooting, competition, self defense (yes, even in Canada) and collecting. All legal and all uses that occur more frequently than misuse.

God this argument is useless and tiring.

Based on your rationale, any man should be able to buy a fully armed fighter jet, and his own SCUD missile. You could make equally stupid arguments why in the hands of a responsible owner, they aren't a threat either.

[PsYcNeT]

Hey man I just bought this flamethrower to take care of all these vines encroaching on my ditch.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

A firearm is a tool as well and just like all tools, a subset of the population will misuse that tool. If you look at the 2013 numbers, vehicle fatalities were 10.345/100,000; firearm fatalities were 10.64/100,000. Almost identical. It goes down even further to 3.55/100,000 if you only count homicide.

Firearms have plenty of legal, recognized purposes. Hunting, target shooting, competition, self defense (yes, even in Canada) and collecting. All legal and all uses that occur more frequently than misuse.

What are guns designed to do? What are cars designed to do?
I'll give you a hint: One of them is designed to kill. Another hint: Not the car.

If you fail to notice a difference then I might as well be speaking to a brick wall.

This is just a small sample of the insane logic that reasonable Americans are up against I suppose.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

A firearm is a tool as well and just like all tools, a subset of the population will misuse that tool. If you look at the 2013 numbers, vehicle fatalities were 10.345/100,000; firearm fatalities were 10.64/100,000. Almost identical. It goes down even further to 3.55/100,000 if you only count homicide.

Firearms have plenty of legal, recognized purposes. Hunting, target shooting, competition, self defense (yes, even in Canada) and collecting. All legal and all uses that occur more frequently than misuse.

This is a defense? If you remove the people who accidentally died by gunfire, it looks better? 1/3 of gun deaths were homicides, what were the rest? Surely they must all be homicides because guns are only a problem when someone is purposely going to kill someone, and even then, they are the solution as well. 2/3 of people killed by guns were done so accidentally, but still must have been gangs or something right? Somehow?

Oh but car deaths! Those things that almost everyone has an uses for getting around? Those things that we come in contact with everyday that we license and test people to drive, that must be registered for the express purpose that we know who owns it if it's stolen or used in a crime? Those things that are a constant hazard, that we walk in front of, ride around, and are controlled by potentially unreliable light systems or faulty onboard computers? The fact that gun-related deaths are even close (let alone above) car deaths is completely ridiculous. Car deaths SHOULD be well above the gun death rate.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This is a defense? If you remove the people who accidentally died by gunfire, it looks better? 1/3 of gun deaths were homicides, what were the rest? Surely they must all be homicides because guns are only a problem when someone is purposely going to kill someone, and even then, they are the solution as well. 2/3 of people killed by guns were done so accidentally, but still must have been gangs or something right? Somehow?

Oh but car deaths! Those things that almost everyone has an uses for getting around? Those things that we come in contact with everyday that we license and test people to drive, that must be registered for the express purpose that we know who owns it if it's stolen or used in a crime? Those things that are a constant hazard, that we walk in front of, ride around, and are controlled by potentially unreliable light systems or faulty onboard computers? The fact that gun-related deaths are even close (let alone above) car deaths is completely ridiculous. Car deaths SHOULD be well above the gun death rate.

One should remove the vehicle fatalities that were "murders" and compare the % change to the % change with gun murders. I assume it will be different orders of magnitude.