Who's getting the H1N1 shot?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I'm not going out of my way to serve your laziness either.....

In other words: no-one said that. You made it up.

There's a pretty giant gulf between "getting vaccinated is safe and responsible" and "you're a murderer if you don't get vaccinated." I realize you'd rather debate the latter viewpoint, but we can't help you there. Most of us believe the former, and nothing that happened this flu season contradicts that viewpoint in any way.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

In other words: no-one said that. You made it up.

There's a pretty giant gulf between "getting vaccinated is safe and responsible" and "you're a murderer if you don't get vaccinated." I realize you'd rather debate the latter viewpoint, but we can't help you there. Most of us believe the former, and nothing that happened this flu season contradicts that viewpoint in any way.

People were comparing not getting the shot to drinking and driving. I'm personally not going through the 70 pages of mostly crap but people were talking big when it was going on.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

In other words: no-one said that. You made it up.

There's a pretty giant gulf between "getting vaccinated is safe and responsible" and "you're a murderer if you don't get vaccinated." I realize you'd rather debate the latter viewpoint, but we can't help you there. Most of us believe the former, and nothing that happened this flu season contradicts that viewpoint in any way.

I have been following the entire thread for christs sake....get off your pedestal.

I'm not the only one making the claim...see HOOTS last post.

So you guys expect me to go back and read everything to point it out for you? There were comparisons of the non-vaccinated folks to people who drink and drive, calling us murderers for unknowingly spreading the bug etc.....

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I have been following the entire thread for christs sake....get off your pedestal.

I'm not the only one making the claim...see HOOTS last post.

So you guys expect me to go back and read everything to point it out for you? There were comparisons of the non-vaccinated folks to people who drink and drive, calling us murderers for unknowingly spreading the bug etc.....

Yes. I expect that if you make outlandish claims, you provide proof. Is that so crazy?

My memory is different from yours, so I'd like some proof when you make a claim that doesn't jive with what I remember. You made the claim. You prove it. That's just how it works--sorry if you don't like it.

I've been following the thread too--and I'm not getting off my pedestal. I like it up here.

[TSXCman]

Who shot ya

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Yes. I expect that if you make outlandish claims, you provide proof. Is that so crazy?

My memory is different from yours, so I'd like some proof when you make a claim that doesn't jive with what I remember. You made the claim. You prove it. That's just how it works--sorry if you don't like it.

I've been following the thread too--and I'm not getting off my pedestal. I like it up here.

Okay fine...........the truth is HOOT and I completely imagined the whole thing. You are right........######-bag

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Okay fine...........the truth [snip] I completely imagined the whole thing. You are right........######-bag

I'm glad we agree. Though there's no need to drag HOOT into it.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by HOOT

People were comparing not getting the shot to drinking and driving. I'm personally not going through the 70 pages of mostly crap but people were talking big when it was going on.

If you are referring to my post:

This is why I drink and drive. I mean, there are so many things I could possibly die from.. getting hit by a bus walking to work, heart attack, murdered by a mugger. Not drinking and driving won't "save me". It would just "save me" from smashing a vehicle into a tree. So instead, I'm going to eat better and exercise more and continue to drink and drive.

I was not comparing the two. I was sarcastically pointing out that one can do TWO things to improve their health AT THE SAME TIME. Jammies said you should "eat better and exercise more" rather than getting a flu shot. My point was, "why not do both?"

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anyhow, I heard on the radio yesterday that 53% of Ottawa had the vaccine. Approximately another 17% were either already immune or caught the virus and are now immune. Given a total of 70% of the population now being inoculated, the doctors here believe that we are in good shape should H1N1 sweep through again in the spring as anticipated. Meaning less people off work (yay.... that was the month from hell here.... I was fixing systems that I was the backup to the backup to the backup on). It means less cramped waiting rooms. It means it is less likely that someone in the high risk categories is going to catch it and die.

-=-=-=-=-
I do find it funny. There is a serious flu. The government acts swiftly to implement a mass vaccination of the population so that most don't get the flu. Then when there isn't a mass epidemic, people are like "See, what a waste of money that was?". Isn't there one of them logical fallacies in there somewhere?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I do find it funny. There is a serious flu. The government acts swiftly to implement a mass vaccination of the population so that most don't get the flu. Then when there isn't a mass epidemic, people are like "See, what a waste of money that was?". Isn't there one of them logical fallacies in there somewhere?

Best not to use logic on an internet board.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I do find it funny. There is a serious flu. The government acts swiftly to implement a mass vaccination of the population so that most don't get the flu. Then when there isn't a mass epidemic, people are like "See, what a waste of money that was?". Isn't there one of them logical fallacies in there somewhere?

I have no problem with them wasting money on something like this. Some people needed it and some people felt they needed it so it was done. Nothing you can do about it now. What I have a problem with is the people who were getting it and telling us who weren't that we were all going to die and we are killing those around us.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I have no problem with them wasting money on something like this. Some people needed it and some people felt they needed it so it was done. Nothing you can do about it now. What I have a problem with is the people who were getting it and telling us who weren't that we were all going to die and we are killing those around us.

I know for a fact you killed at least 37 people with your farts.

[Jonrox]

I saw a report a few weeks ago (I think it was on CNN... I could be wrong though). They had an "expert" on who said it would be a good thing if the H1N1 strain became the dominant strain as it proved to be less deadly than the strains we've experienced for the past several years.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I know for a fact you killed at least 37 people with your farts.

That is completely different, also they deserved it.

I wish we could change the poll to "Who did get their H1N1 shots" to see if the results were much different.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I do find it funny. There is a serious flu. The government acts swiftly to implement a mass vaccination of the population so that most don't get the flu. Then when there isn't a mass epidemic, people are like "See, what a waste of money that was?". Isn't there one of them logical fallacies in there somewhere?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's basically a un-winnable situation for the governments PR team. It is impossible to see into the future. Medical experts will not be able to tell if any virus is going to turn into a world wide killer or if it will fizzle out in a couple weeks. This bout of H1N1 had the potential in their eyes. It would be silly to say that they should implement the vaccine once it reached world wide killer status (I status I just made up BTW) because it would be far too late. If they did and the flu killed many many people the government would look stupid again. What are people expecting? A Dustin Hoffman last minute cure to save everyone from that type of virus? Wouldn't count on it.

The great thing about the flu vaccine is that it can prevents the flu. Medicine works much better if it prevents the disease instead of trying to cure it. I think because no one here was alive in 1920 that they underestimate the flu and vaccines.

[Jonrox]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's basically a un-winnable situation for the governments PR team. It is impossible to see into the future. Medical experts will not be able to tell if any virus is going to turn into a world wide killer or if it will fizzle out in a couple weeks. This bout of H1N1 had the potential in their eyes. It would be silly to say that they should implement the vaccine once it reached world wide killer status (I status I just made up BTW) because it would be far too late. If they did and the flu killed many many people the government would look stupid again. What are people expecting? A Dustin Hoffman last minute cure to save everyone from that type of virus? Wouldn't count on it.

The great thing about the flu vaccine is that it can prevents the flu. Medicine works much better if it prevents the disease instead of trying to cure it. I think because no one here was alive in 1920 that they underestimate the flu and vaccines.

Buying more than twice the number of necessary doses at a cost likely around $250 million is difficult for the PR team to spin whether the vaccination program was justified or not. The government was a little over-zealous in their response to the threat and wasted millions upon millions of dollars in the process.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I was not comparing the two. I was sarcastically pointing out that one can do TWO things to improve their health AT THE SAME TIME. Jammies said you should "eat better and exercise more" rather than getting a flu shot. My point was, "why not do both?"

As I recall, my argument was more along the lines of the H1N1 vaccination having far less effect on your long-term health than improving your physical condition would, and that the idea of getting the shot to make yourself "safe" was a crock. Your argument ignored the further point that while there are possible negative ramifications to getting the flu shot, there really aren't any for eating better and exercising more, and thus you can't set them up as equivalent behaviours that are equally attractive and beneficial.

I didn't get the shot, so I missed out on the two-three days of nausea and flu symptoms I get (minimum) with every flu shot. I also didn't get the flu. So for me, I ended up with the optimum result after taking a calculated risk.
If you examined the risks and decided that the shot was for you, then I have no issue - my issue is, was, and always shall be that this was never a MORAL issue and that framing it in such a manner was not only mistaken, but repugnant.

[Wookie]

It's all hindsight.

The general public was being looked out for.

Looking back was it an overreaction? Maybe. . . It's going to be seen as an overreaction everytime until the one time it's not. But it's prepared the system and services for next time. Which, if it's a cause for concern I'll probably be back again for a vaccination.

I think I got mine a month or two after the program started, a few weeks after it was re-opened for non-risk people.

Great you got it and you lived, or you didn't get it and you didn't die. Whoopee do. No one was right, no one was wrong.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

In other words: no-one said that. You made it up.

There's a pretty giant gulf between "getting vaccinated is safe and responsible" and "you're a murderer if you don't get vaccinated." I realize you'd rather debate the latter viewpoint, but we can't help you there. Most of us believe the former, and nothing that happened this flu season contradicts that viewpoint in any way.

Judging by the poll, "most" is 15 people above 50%. While technically I guess that makes you right, it's pretty disingenuous to act as if it's a closed issue for the majority.

And don't pretend like there weren't a number of posters doing a whole lot of over the top fear mongering throughout this thread.

[Ashartus]

While the government did purchase too much vaccine, that was mainly because at first they thought 2 doses would be necessary. If it had turned out to be a bad one there would have been a lot of criticism if they ran out. They still wouldn't have used it all - too many people believe the stuff the anti-vaccine groups say - but I don't think they could take that chance. And while the outbreak wasn't as bad as feared, it was still pretty bad, with pretty high infection rates at its peak (and it killed more than twice as many children as a typical flu season).

Still, some positives came out of it:
- It raised a lot of awareness of flu prevention, hand washing, etc.
- The vaccine roll-out was very thoroughly monitored, generating a good set of safety data.
- Enough people got vaccinated to most likely prevent a third wave, but pandemic H1N1 still seems to be out-competing the other strains, so we have very little influenza circulating right now during what would normally be flu season.
- Hopefully there will be some good field data on flu vaccine effectiveness for next year - there are good data on immune responses from the vaccine, but it would be nice to have solid data on how that translates to people actually getting sick or not.
- We learned how much our government coordination of the response needs to improve.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

)

I do find it funny. There is a serious flu. The government acts swiftly to implement a mass vaccination of the population so that most don't get the flu. Then when there isn't a mass epidemic, people are like "See, what a waste of money that was?". Isn't there one of them logical fallacies in there somewhere?

That right there sums up where this thread should be going, but likely wont.