The Blue Jays: 2009 Season Thread

[flambers]

Originally Posted by loob job

No, we unloaded an aging injury prone third baseman in a year where we have no shot for pitching prospects, which you can never have enough of, one of which will probably go right to our bullpen.

Question is are the Jays "rebuilding" or are they going to make a push for it next season....

JP was quoted that he would not trade players like Rolen and Scutaro, Downs etc if Doc was not moved yet he keeps Doc and moves Rolen....

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by loob job

No, we unloaded an aging injury prone third baseman when we have no shot for pitching prospects, which you can never have enough of, one of which will probably go right to our bullpen.

Ah, the old "trade away our best position player for pitching prospects" strategy of competing for the playoffs in the 1 year window we have.
Very wily....

If we kept Rolen and he sucked next year then we're probably boned anyway.
Now we just have even more holes to fill.

[Sylvanfan]

Yeah, but if Encarnacion was to regain form, he can be a 20 home run guy, which Rolen no longer can be. With the money saved, maybe they go out and find a way to add another bat, or get another starting pitcher for the rotation.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah, but if Encarnacion was to regain form, he can be a 20 home run guy, which Rolen no longer can be. With the money saved, maybe they go out and find a way to add another bat, or get another starting pitcher for the rotation.

No way we chase more pitching, we've already got ten guys that are going to compete for the rotation next year.

Edwin sucks. I'm supposed to be excited that he might turn into a poor mans Troy Glaus?

As for adding a bat, maybe a gold glove 3rd baseman that would lead the team in batting average? Shouldn't be too hard to get.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Gozer

No way we chase more pitching, we've already got ten guys that are going to compete for the rotation next year.

Edwin sucks. I'm supposed to be excited that he might turn into a poor mans Troy Glaus?

As for adding a bat, maybe a gold glove 3rd baseman that would lead the team in batting average? Shouldn't be too hard to get.

Yep I agree..... Weird move for sure... I am curious to hear JP's version of why he made this move but kept others....

Or is this nothing more than an forced salary dump.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flambers

Or is this nothing more than an forced salary dump.

Yep, dump salary to keep your job and who gives a shinguard about your paying customers.

How fans see Rolen:
http://www.ghostrunneronfirst.com/20...ins-blown.html

And aren't the fans all that matter when you have a middling team in an impossible circumstance?

In two or three years do we really think that we'll have more talent than the Rays or the Os, or have a similar payroll to the Sox or Yanks?

No chance, so at least keep the fan favorites for the fan's sake!

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Yep, dump salary to keep your job and who gives a shinguard about your paying customers.

How fans see Rolen:
http://www.ghostrunneronfirst.com/20...ins-blown.html

And aren't the fans all that matter when you have a middling team in an impossible circumstance?

In two or three years do we really think that we'll have more talent than the Rays or the Os, or have a similar payroll to the Sox or Yanks?

No chance, so at least keep the fan favorites for the fan's sake!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1234388/

Stephen Brunt saying that it' going not going to be a fan committment. Money in equals money out.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Stephen Brunt saying that it' going not going to be a fan committment. Money in equals money out.

Oh, that totally clears things up



I read that article a couple days ago, basically they're crunching numbers and figuring out that the Jays aren't profitable, probably because they have no motivation to maximize their TV contracts or stadium naming rights because that would expose the areas of their company that they're fudging the numbers to drive up stock prices.

[Machiavelli]

JP: Rolen asked to be traded for "personal reasons"

http://twitter.com/MLBastian

[Gozer]

<==== Egg on face

[JayP]

Pretty damn good return for Rolen if he was requesting a trade.

Encarnacian is not a great 3rd basemen, but he's definitely serviceable and young enough to turn his career around. From the sounds of it, both the pitching prospects we got in return are very good and MLB ready.

Both are relievers which is something the Jays desperately need right now.

[Gozer]

Masochistic Update: This season Edwin Encarnacion has 5 home runs and a .318 wOBA. His UZR/150 at third base is a stunning -23.1. Those are both significantly below his career averages of .350 and -12.2.
-Tao

[JayP]

The thing people are missing here is that Rolen is due another $11.6M next season. Encarnacion makes $2.4M this season and still has two arbitration years available.

Ronicke and Stewart have both been absolutely lights out at every level they've played at in the minors (and, in Roenicke's case, very good at the MLB level). Both will probably be on the big club to start the year next year. Most importantly, both will still be on entry level deals and will be making around 400-500k each.

The deal works out to Encarnacion + Roenicke + Stewart + $8M salary space = Rolen.

These are exactly the types of deals the Jays have to be making if they want to compete in the AL East. Load up on guys in their entry level and, to a lesser extent, arbitration eligible years and use free agency to fix holes on shorter term deals. It's just too bad the Jays are just starting to do this after they screwed themselves for years to come by massively overpaying to keep Wells.

[Machiavelli]

I believe the Jays sent some money to the Reds (4M, IIRC).

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I believe the Jays sent some money to the Reds (4M, IIRC).

Yeah I'm reading that too. I don't know the figure, but Rolen is owed $20M over the rest of this season and next year so that $4M is pretty unsubstantial.

Analysis of the trade: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/rolen-to-cincy

[Sylvanfan]

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=286388

Artical about the demographic shift and how it's starting to take hold in Baseball. The Jays have a few good young pitchers, but in the field they're up there in age. With the steroid era gone, especially in position players I wouldn't be banking on guys past the age of 32 to keep producing the way they did in the past.

[Machiavelli]

Someone needs to tell Rios to fix his stance....it is FUBAR.

[I wanna be like Miikka]

God I hate the Jays. Easily the worst decision keeping Halladay. That tsn article Syl was great, no idea why JP thinks this aging team can do anything different next year. I feel so bad for Halladay and will celebrate the day he is traded or just leaves this brutally run organization, they are an embarassment to the LA Clippers! (ok maybe that was too far)

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Gozer

So we unloaded our cleanup hitter and best defensive player for more pitching prospects?

Ugh.*facepalming*

One of the things that you can never ever have enough of is good pitching prospects. Quality pitching is at a premium and even despite having 5 starting pitchers injured, the jays still have a quality rotation. The bullpen needs some work, but most teams have that issue. Getting two quality reliever prospects will help to fix that problem.

Plus with Rolen's salary off the books either partially or completely next year will allow the Jays to sign some actual offensive players in the offseason.

[Tyler]

Some interesting talk here about the Jays and Vernon Wells.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=665099&page=43

Apparently Wells was rumored to have failed drug tests for PED's back in 2003. Once he was forced off the juice and had his big contract, he lost of ton of weight and started to suck again.

Sound plausible?