Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No that's NOT my point as that is a terrible way to think about the draft.



Also not my point. I was just showing the FULL view of how his drafts break down instead of an editorialized version.



I'm not cherry picking anything. I showed the full view of his drafts.
I'm of the mind that you take BPA. I'm also not convinced you've actually looked across all teams to see how they break down relative to the Flames. If so - show your work.

The Preds are actually an example of why you should take BPA. They have been always STOCKED at D to the point that they were over flowing, so they traded Jones for a Ry-Jo and Girard (plus other pieces) for Turris.

Take the BPA, build the asset base, and use that as currency.

I hear your point and it is sound as long, as you actually trade assets to end up with a balanced roster. Our roster is clearly not balanced, but rather tilted towards the D. As opposed to the Preds, we have not made any impact D for F trades as of yet, which led one to believe that the current balance is exactly how BT wants it to be.

[CliffFletcher]

Hockey trades - especially hockey trades for impact players - are not easy to make these days. I agree that teams should draft the best player available. But I do think you leave yourself vulnerable to needing a trade to fix your lineup, and trades just aren't that common or easy to do.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I hear your point and it is sound as long, as you actually trade assets to end up with a balanced roster. Our roster is clearly not balanced, but rather tilted towards the D. As opposed to the Preds, we have not made any impact D for F trades as of yet, which led one to believe that the current balance is exactly how BT wants it to be.

I think this season has driven clarity around how the roster is not balanced. But you don't address that by changing your drafting approach.
I view the question of if BT has been too focused on D in signings and trades to have a much different answer than how he approaches the draft.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Bad GMs rarely look like flat out idiots. For example, if you make me GM, I would try to address scoring issues and depth issues, I would trade one of the D for some RH top six RW and bring some depth energetic guys for cheap bottom six. See, I am already looking halfway competent. The nature of GMs job is that the overall general plan is so obvious, that even an average fan like me can make moves that would, at worst, make sense. If I sign Brouwer, I would say - well, the team did need a top-six RW, didn't it, and Brouwer was the best available option. If I trade for Elliott, I would say, we the team needed a starting goalie, and Elliott's numbers were pretty good. If I draft Bennett, I would say well, all the draft experts had Bennett around 4th overall, the pick made sense at that point.

The difference between good GM and bad GM is execution. Making moves that make sense us fairly easy. You rarely see GMs making moves that look stupid from the get-go. Even Hall for Larsson deal actually made sense for Chiarelli.

Great post and to add to that, new GMs that have plans that run contrary to prevailing wisdom such as Sweeney, Kekaleinan, and McPhee in his Vegas role often turn out to be among the best.

Homer evaluations of the GM, too much like wishful evaluations of the Flames' advanced stats, is too much based on what fans think should have or wished had happened instead of the actual on-ice product and results.

There are many different ways to be a fan. Demanding better from the organization does not make you a fairweather fan.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Do you really know that for sure or do you badly want to believe that the owners and Burke dictated this trade rather than looking at the obvious? IMO the Hamonic trade has Treliving's fingerprints all over it. From what I can see since Treliving took over is that he really, really covets defensemen more than any other position and his philosophy seems to be that you build a winner out through the blue line. His two big trade acquisitions have been defensemen and he's also drafted a lot of defensemen over his tenure which is why the organization talent base is off kilter with a lot of defensive prospects and light on forward skill. Over that time he's drafted Tkachuk and Bennett with 1st round picks but has not really done much to address the lack of skill on the wings. IMO he's got a bit of Predators envy and is trying to build the team as they did with defense first and it's not working out especially when the team is coached to play a style more suited to an average lunch pale group of defensemen.

Actually what it sounds he has employed is the blueprint of Burke's failed attempt to rebuild the Leafs. On that basis I would question how much influence Burke has had on the overall strategy and several of Treliving's moves.

[SportsJunky]

Eric Francis between periods tonight mentioned that Treliving will be looking at moving one or more of Hamilton, Brodie or Bennett this off season. Says a top 3 or top 6 forward is what needs to come back in return. Don’t know if he was merely speculating or if he has some insider knowledge.

Sounds about right to me.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Eric Francis between periods tonight mentioned that Treliving will be looking at moving one or more of Hamilton, Brodie or Bennett this off season. Says a top 3 or top 6 forward is what needs to come back in return. Don’t know if he was merely speculating or if he has some insider knowledge.

Sounds about right to me.

Yeah let’s trade the three guys that have had their values most suppressed because of GG’s idiot player deployment

Great plan

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Yeah let’s trade the three guys that have had their values most suppressed because of GG’s idiot player deployment

Great plan

Not sure how Hamilton fits that. Can't argue the other two though.

[puffnstuff]

Farncis would not have gotten that from Tre. He is totally speculating. And doing it poorly as he always does.

[Mr.Coffee]

When coaching is so obviously the problem, why would you make big roster changes on personnel that may vastly improve under a new system?

Moving players would be a mistake. This is why Gulutzan should have been gone in December. It was clear coaching was the problem, and then we could use those 4 months to evaluate if any of these players are also a problem or not. Now we don't know, and they're going to make a risk decision on giving up on a possible high upside asset?

Stupid. Control the variables when you can, to identify and then eliminate problems.

[Fan in Exile]

The reason that you consider trading Hamilton vs. Brodie is precisely because of how's he valued, and on the strong possibility that Brodie ups his play again under a different coach playing on the right with Gio again. Hamilton definitely gets you a better return right now. And it's way past time that Treliving made a move for a forward that is beyond a half-measure for a mediocre vet who is unlikely to exceed 40-50 points.

[iamca]

Tre trades Hamilton, wait, what?

I can see Brodie and Bennett if you are getting back a top 3 and top 6 forward, but Hamilton should be on the do not trade list for this team.

[The Boy Wonder]

Honestly would rather see gio go than Hamilton.

It’s better to cut ties a year or two early than to run into iggy territory and get nothing back for him.

For the record I would expect a ridiculously good return if this were to happen

[Jiri Hrdina]

If people agree that a core scoring winger is the main gap, then how do you expect that to be addressed without moving a good piece the other way?
Or are folks comfortable having the roster back without that being addressed?

[SportsJunky]

Taylor Hall for Larson aside, I like a NJ trade from this season. Anaheim sent Vatanen to NJ for Adam Henrique. Anaheim sent a Dman with some questions surrounding him and got back a 2nd line C in Henrique. The trade has worked out for both sides so far.

I think Brodie should be able to return a good 2nd line guy in his prime. Hamilton gets you a Taylor Hall type return and maybe more. I’d like Bennett to stay. I think he can be a solid 3rd line guy with upside.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If people agree that a core scoring winger is the main gap, then how do you expect that to be addressed without moving a good piece the other way?
Or are folks comfortable having the roster back without that being addressed?

That's why GG and Cameron needed to be kicked to the curb before Xmas, or at least in Jan/Feb so that another coach could try some different things with the existing players. Then it would be more clear whether it is the players that are the problem or their utilization that was the problem. The coach didn't have to be the permanent solution, even an interim coach could have changed things up enough to get a different perspective. Huska or Gelina probably won't be the next permanent coach, but trying them out as an interim couldn't have hurt.

Instead this whole season was just a waste, with far more questions than answers.

[Jiri Hrdina]

But they weren’t. So what do you do now?

[Mr.Coffee]

now you leave the roster alone, as best you can, and fix the coaching, then try to make a mid-season trade.

This is a good team, with extremely poor coaching. Literally some of the worst I've ever seen at the NHL level.

[Toonage]

Assess coaching first and don't make any personnel moves until thats been completed.

[TheScorpion]

I was talking to Gaskal at the calgaryboy game about a similar deal to what SportsJunky was proposing. I think if you can get a guy like Anisimov and perhaps a similar type player to Blandisi -- maybe Kampf or Duclair -- for Brodie, then you look into that.