Toronto Blue Jays vs. Cleveland Indians - ALCS - Page 70 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Roof-Daddy · 10-19-2016, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Travis does not have good OPS .... Just saying

That's because his slugging percentage is low.

Doesn't hit a lot of homers.

What he does do though, is get hits, and get on base.

Joborule · 10-19-2016, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaloper

How about lets first fire the Hitting Coach.

That's what I don't get. Is he intentionally telling them to be over aggressive for the first pitches? Jays are getting themselves behind on the count far too often by bad swings.

JayP · 10-19-2016, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Lineups are infinitely better with a bunch of Good hitters than with the bunch of Great hitters and then a bunch of bad ones. The key is to not have black holes in the lineup and they can really drag you down.

A guy like Travis is so key to this lineup, because he is another player who will manage to get on base or keep the line moving and because automatic outs replace him at the plate.

The problem is I don't know if the Jays will ever be able to rely on Travis to stay in the line-up on a regular basis. When he's out, it's always going to be a Barney or Goins glove-only guy behind him. With Pillar already on the team and Martin regressing that's potentially 1/3 of your order moving forward that is solely playing because of their defense.

Saunders falling apart in the second half really killed this team as well. He was never going to hit like that all season, but he was below replacement level for the second half.

howard_the_duck · 10-19-2016, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

I think teams more recently have not factored the fan favorite thing much at all. No ticket holder whatsoever will say, "I'm not renewing my season tickets because Pillar isn't on the team". He's Ryan Goins of the outfield. Winning trumps all. He's controllable and a great fielder. But I think we're all starting to see that a better batter with an average glove may be more worthwhile. We've seen fan favorites endlessly dealt and people forget pretty quickly. I say trade him while his value as a fielder is high.

Better batter + above average fielder is an all-star in CF.

If he hits marginally better (ala 2015) he's a 5-6 WAR player. That's well above league average in CF.

V · 10-19-2016, 04:00 PM

The announcers sound bored.

cross16 · 10-19-2016, 04:01 PM

the problem I have with the jays lineup showed up last year too. Not enough good LH bats so pitchers can get in a groove with their off speed and breaking balls going away form the RH batters. No LH batters to keep them honest and then not enough just good "hitters" who are good at keeping the ball in play. Too many of the Jays hitters look for the home run and don't adjust to what the pitcher is doing and just put the ball in play.

Its been a flawed offence for a while. What they did last year was an anamoly that KC also exposed. Pitch them the right way and you can get around power.

zyzz · 10-19-2016, 04:03 PM

I pray they let Joey walk. Bring EE back tho

cross16 · 10-19-2016, 04:05 PM

jays are done. Just look at the body language on that pitch form Edwin. just getting totally deflated by any call he doesn't like.

dugout is flat too. Not a team that looks like they can come back at all.

Roof-Daddy · 10-19-2016, 04:05 PM

Yeah, Shapiro and Atkins need to get some better hitters and some left handed bats in the line up.

This is the second year in a row the Jays big swinging power bats have been shut down in the post season.

On paper the starting pitching should be good enough next year to take another run at a wild card, but they need to improve and diversify the hitters.

Without trades it's not going to happen though. Almost everybody is under contract and under control for next season.

The Big Chill · 10-19-2016, 04:06 PM

Damn, thought that was gone

cross16 · 10-19-2016, 04:06 PM

Games of inches. that ball should have been a HR and that has been a small story for the Jays this series. they are not getting any breaks whatsoever.

bluejays · 10-19-2016, 04:11 PM

If I were to guess right now, knowing the management team and what their style is, I don't think any of Bautista, Saunders or Encarnacion will be signed. Wouldn't be surprised if they let all walk and deal for Votto. What else they do with the saved money, who knows.

flambers · 10-19-2016, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cross16

Games of inches. that ball should have been a HR and that has been a small story for the Jays this series. they are not getting any breaks whatsoever.

Cleveland pitchers have exposed the Jays hitters

Not a case of getting breaks etc...

Jays are over matched, to many strikeouts.

Roof-Daddy · 10-19-2016, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

If I were to guess right now, knowing the management team and what their style is, I don't think any of Bautista, Saunders or Encarnacion will be signed. Wouldn't be surprised if they let all walk and deal for Votto. What else they do with the saved money, who knows.

That would be amazing and is my hope as well.

Left hand bat - check
Great avg. - check
Great OBP - check
Great OPS - check
No smoak starting at 1B - CHECK

cross16 · 10-19-2016, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Cleveland pitchers have exposed the Jays hitters

Not a case of getting breaks etc...

Jays are over matched, to many strikeouts.

I agree, that's why i said its a "small" story. Certainly not the reason they are 3-1.

also not sure they got exposed at all. this has been there offence for over a month now. They were exposed a long time ago, Cleveland just followed the blueprint.

Jason14h · 10-19-2016, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That's because his slugging percentage is low.

Doesn't hit a lot of homers.

What he does do though, is get hits, and get on base.

I meant to type OBP

His OBP was .332 this season.

The only regulars he was ahead of was Tulo (.318) and Pillar (.304)

I actually think Travis is going to have the exact same problems as Pillar next season, but with terrible D.

bluejays · 10-19-2016, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That would be amazing and is my hope as well.

Left hand bat - check
Great avg. - check
Great OBP - check
Great OPS - check
No smoak starting at 1B - CHECK

I prefer Edwin to Votto, but when it comes to dollars Edwin will get, it'd be hard to justify $30M+ he'd get compared to Votto. I really have no idea why management signed Smoak. That is a mystery I'll never understand.

cross16 · 10-19-2016, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I meant to type OBP

His OBP was .332 this season.

The only regulars he was ahead of was Tulo (.318) and Pillar (.304)

I actually think Travis is going to have the exact same problems as Pillar next season, but with terrible D.

mostly becuase he struggled coming back from injury. OBP by month:
May .240
June .333
july .346
August .324
sept .361

Nothing wrong with Travis' ability to get on base. I get the concern about him staying healthy but I don't understand the concern about Travis as a player. Guy is a player, no question.

Tyler · 10-19-2016, 04:19 PM

2 big innings. Come on Jays! I believe!

868904 · 10-19-2016, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joborule

That's what I don't get. Is he intentionally telling them to be over aggressive for the first pitches? Jays are getting themselves behind on the count far too often by bad swings.

This has been a talking point all year long. There are those who think "homerun has got us here all year, gotta stick with it" and yet, they keep running into the same wall, the "wall of good pitching", where the long ball doesn't fly.

You listen to the celebratory interviews after the WC and DS games, the big boppers were parroting the same tune "this is what got us here".

If you can't manufacture runs, you don't win in the playoffs.