Another Wikileaks release

[HPLovecraft]

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

You have much more confidence in the chain of command than I do.

I'd go far as to say you're being a bit naive about these mechanisms and the purpose they are supposed to serve.

For certain things the whistle blower hotlines are useful and trustworthy. Cases of financial fraud in the US and Canada can be generally relied upon to be dealt with. Really you should go to the press only when something is outright illegal and being covered up like the time that Apache hosed those reporters.

But releasing all these classified diplomatic cables is ridiculous and hazardous and IMHO should not have been done since there was nothing illegal in those cables. It damages international relations on a wide scale that may take years to recover. Say for example now hardliners in the Chinese politburo could use the information in the wikileaks release to figure out who isn't supporting North Korea and just gets rid of them quietly. With no one to reign in NK, this could end up affect the lives of lots of civilians in several countries. etc

From what I understand, Assange did this to save his own hide as "insurance" against the dirty tactics of the US manipulating Interpol with those sex crime charges. This will end up affecting a lot more people than just him.

[Phaneuf3]

It's kind of amusing to see governments so worked up about invasions of privacy of governments and businesses but many won't bat an eyelash at completely destroying an individual's right to privacy.

[Art Vandelay]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/mobile/...296/story.html

It's funny that the Americans were concerned about CBC shows that are putting the US in a bad light. Don't they know that no one actually watches CBC created TV shows?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Luckily a U of C prof steps up and calls for action!

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

It's funny that the Americans were concerned about CBC shows that are putting the US in a bad light. Don't they know that no one actually watches CBC created TV shows?

Har, he probably could have just forwarded a TV guide episode synapsis instead of writing that cable, I mean does the state department really need to know the content of a Canadian TV drama? I hope our man in the U.S. wasn't sending back official reports that are an episode review of How I Met Your Mother where Canadians are portrayed as hoser hockey hooligans with a national fear of the dark that say "Eh" way more then is typical. Methinks they're a wee bit over sensitive.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Luckily a U of C prof steps up and calls for action!

I find the reaction to all of this genuinely frightening. From the French comments that a "transparent society is a totalitarian society," to a US Senator calling for Assange to be labeled an "enemy combatant" and executed, to this guy, a supposed Harper advisor, calling for the guy's killing on national TV. And then the laughter that ensues.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

I find the reaction to all of this genuinely frightening. From the French comments that a "transparent society is a totalitarian society," to a US Senator calling for Assange to be labeled an "enemy combatant" and executed, to this guy, a former Harper advisor, calling for the guy's killing on national TV. And then the laughter that ensues.

FTFY
This ######nozzle hasn't had anything to do with Harper or the conservative party since 2006.

[FlameOn]

Wikileaks released a bunch more stuff yesterday on Russia. Basically nothing surprising. Russia is one big mafia state.
http://bit.ly/hx12Rf

[ah123]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

http://www.calgaryherald.com/mobile/...296/story.html

It's funny that the Americans were concerned about CBC shows that are putting the US in a bad light. Don't they know that no one in Canada actually watches CBC created TV shows?

Fixed your post, since we now know that some American agencies are watching CBC

[The Goon]

Hey WikiLeaks, do something useful and get inside FIFA.

[Phaneuf3]

Not sure if this has been posted here before but it's an interesting read. The chats that lead to the source of the leaks being detained.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...ikileaks-chat/

(02:31:02 PM) Manning: i think the thing that got me the most… that made me rethink the world more than anything
(02:35:46 PM) Manning: was watching 15 detainees taken by the Iraqi Federal Police… for printing “anti-Iraqi literature”… the iraqi federal police wouldn’t cooperate with US forces, so i was instructed to investigate the matter, find out who the “bad guys” were, and how significant this was for the FPs… it turned out, they had printed a scholarly critique against PM Maliki… i had an interpreter read it for me… and when i found out that it was a benign political critique titled “Where did the money go?” and following the corruption trail within the PM’s cabinet… i immediately took that information and *ran* to the officer to explain what was going on… he didn’t want to hear any of it… he told me to shut up and explain how we could assist the FPs in finding *MORE* detainees…
(02:36:27 PM) Manning: everything started slipping after that… i saw things differently
(02:37:37 PM) Manning: i had always questioned the things worked, and investigated to find the truth… but that was a point where i was a *part* of something… i was actively involved in something that i was completely against…

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Don't be so sure. Remember, WikiLeaks is not the one to steal these documents. Whoever leaks them is the one responsible for that criminal act.

Ever heard of 'possession of stolen property'?

[CaptainCrunch]

Enjoy prison Manning.

He went one level on one instance and then stole anything he could and sent it to a guy who publicated it.

04:42:16 PM) Manning: im not sure whether i’d be considered a type of “hacker”, “cracker”, “hacktivist”, “leaker” or what…
(04:42:26 PM) Manning: im just me… really
(04:44:21 PM) Manning: starts off like every physics / astro class intro… ever
(04:44:21 PM) Lamo : I’m not here right now
(04:44:45 PM) Manning: albeit without the algebraic proofs
(04:45:20 PM) Lamo: or a spy
(04:45:48 PM) Manning: i couldn’t be a spy…
(04:45:59 PM) Manning: spies dont post things up for the world to see

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Enjoy prison Manning.

He went one level on one instance and then stole anything he could and sent it to a guy who publicated it.

Fareed Zakaria in Newsweek with a good opinion piece on this . . . . . basically saying the cables are a good demonstration of the quality of USA diplomacy while secondly, the real scandal was the overkill decision on information sharing that allowed a private in the Army to access confidential conversations between an American ambassador and the President of France.

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...034284,00.html

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

I would argue that every nation acts in the same way on a diplomatic front, some probably even far worse.

I remember reading a book on international relations where it was described as being a game between two thugs with impeccible language and really nice suits.

Sure the security has be be ravamped and probably be made far more draconian. If anyone ever craves transparency and openess, this whole episode probably ended it as that information will be buried so deep in the need to know vault that it will never be seen again.

And regardless of the security setups, Manning still committed a major crime here, and he's probably going to be the public face of the most severe punishment possible for this kind of theft and disclosure.

But I would assume that a large amount of heads are going to roll behind the scenes.

If the Alderich Aimes episode caused heads to roll, then the hallways in washington are going to be flooded with blood.

And I would bet that its going to be fairly public too.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Ever heard of 'possession of stolen property'?

That's not how it works. And I hope that doesn't change as a result of this, although the US is certainly going down that path.

[CaptainCrunch]

How is it not stolen property, those were classified documents not in the public domain, Wikileaks did not have permission to possess them and they were gained from a criminal act.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

How is it not stolen property, those were classified documents not in the public domain, Wikileaks did not have permission to possess them and they were gained from a criminal act.

Information alone is not simply "property." It's a much stickier issue than that in this case, and, if the US is prepared to press charges against WikiLeaks for the possession of stolen property based on their dissemination (key word) of non-copyrighted, non-intellectual property, I hope they are ready to go after the New York Times and every other news outlet that has published these leaks for doing the exact same thing. Reading the various press releases by the US, it sounds to me as if they don't know what to charge WikiLeaks with. They are all over the board.

Really, if WikiLeaks is guilty of the dissemination of classified information (remember, your wording is incorrect -- they never received documents, they received digital information, which complicates the mater further), isn't the Times, the Guardian, and Der Spiegel guilty of the same thing? And each news outlet since then? CNN only declined receiving these "documents" because they didn't want to sign a confidentiality agreement with WikiLeaks. They didn't consider being called "treasonous" for the mere act of publishing leaks -- something news organization have done for a very, very long time.

When it comes down to it, how is this any different from the Lawrence Frank espionage scandal? In that case, the people who "stole" the information were found guilty (possibly Private Manning here), while those who disseminated it were not.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Sorry... deleted post as I got dates on article confused.