Taber man charged with assault for protecting his wife/home

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

How about the very story we are discussing??

The guy didnt know anyone was there...he went through his house and found no one until he came back outside. He first saw the scumbag sitting in the car and trying to escape. If his whole intention was confrontation, he would have just stayed in the safety of his own vehicle and waited for the criminal(s) to come out.

I think he did what any reasonable person would do, phone the police, grab something for protection when it appears someone may be around, check your house to see what has happened, then head back outside to be with your family. When confronted with the actual criminal in this situation and the guy is trying to ram his way out but is a threat to your wife, you drill him in the face, twice, to try and stop him from a) hurting anyone AND b) escaping from law enforcement. He is on a farm out in the country, so I have zero idea what it is that you reasonably expect someone to do. Its not like the poilice were parked around the corner eating donuts.

And again, if the guy wanted nothing but to "mete out prarie justice" he could have followed the scumbag and caught him when the putz got caught up in some barbed wire, and then really laid the boots to him. he did none of that kind of thing.

The Crown has advised to lay charges, which is abhorent to me. The guy did what any reasonable person would do, and now will have to defend himself in court for it, costing him both monetarily and emotionally I would guess.

I think the guy is a friggin hero, and anyone who thinks the government in this case is correct should give their heads a shake. Put yourself in his shoes then tell me that he has earned the priviledge of being charged with a worse crime than the guy who's fault this is...the criminal.

Ridiculous? yes. Elaborate tale? No.

Convenient of you to leave out the whole 'blocking the car in to prevent escape' part. Interesting that that part of the scenario is the very crux of the argument.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by valo403

Convenient of you to leave out the whole 'blocking the car in to prevent escape' part. Interesting that that part of the scenario is the very crux of the argument.

Holy crap man.

Its a farm...long driveway to HIS house. He parked behind a car in his driveway...can you prove he was "blocking it in"? That quite a leap but even if he was...so frickin what??

Its his house and it would be of benefit to police, just guessing here, to help capture the criminals if you know...the guys car is there to seek clues from.

No idea how that then goes to looking for provocation for a confrontation...because its crystal clear he wasn't. If he was, he would have followed the scumbag and beat him when he was tangled up in the fence. He didn't do that. Why?


Oh and I can do little faces to.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by valo403

Convenient of you to leave out the whole 'blocking the car in to prevent escape' part. Interesting that that part of the scenario is the very crux of the argument.

Was the guy supposed to park on his lawn??

It is easy for us to sit back after the fact and logically analyze what happened, but there is an emotional reaction to someone intruding into your home and people's instincts take over......the guy got busted in the face and he deserved it, period.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

but there is an emotional reaction to someone intruding into your home and people's instincts take over......the guy got busted in the face and he deserved it, period.

This is one of the reasons he is being charged, you are supposed to control your emotions. You may get a lesser penalty for an emotional response but it doesn't excuse bad behavior.

The more that is released about this the more damning it looks on the guy. He will probably get a slap on the wrist and I'm sure half the cops couldn't have cared less but you can't have people running around taking the law into their own hands.

I don't feel sorry for the 'victim' but I can't say I agree with the homeowner. How's that for fencesitting

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by pylon

I know I sound like a barbarian or something, but I could care less about sick violent criminals, and I have zero empathy for their condition.

Have a coffee bud

[anyonebutedmonton]

Originally Posted by pylon

I agree with him, our system is a joke. You could throw out a million examples as of why. You know our whole system protecting and pardoning pedophiles, our lack of capital punishment, and the fact that hopped up drug addict can break into your house and threaten your wife and children, and you are not allowed to kill the guy.

The fact this man has to answer to the justice system for protecting his home is pathetic... but hey, all the lawyers out there must love it.. more work for them. The second that idiot makes the decision to enter my home, and threaten the safety of my family, he has given up his rights. I would shoot the guy on the spot, regardless of what our pussified justice system thinks of it. The problem with the Canadian justice system is it seems like it spends more time thinking of ways to protect the bad people not the victims.

What do we need to do to improve our justice system?

We need to strip criminals of all of their rights. You get convicted of serious violent or sexual crime, you have none until you serve your full sentence. If you get an early release, you still have no rights until your probation is done. You get no health care, government assistance, unemployment benefits, no right to vote, no access to credit. You are also labeled with some sort of marker to inform anyone who comes into contact with you of what a piece of garbage you are. You can merely exist, like a stray dog, and have the same rights as that dog.

We need to re-instate the death penalty. In murder cases where there is zero doubt, or an admission of guilt, off to the chamber you go.

We need to castrate child molesters on their first offenses. And I don't mean chemically, chop it all off. Female offenders should be sewn shut. Even though the libs out there might be disappointed, you know..... how they think child porn is art and all. And no segregation for diddlers any more. Off to general population you go, and when you show up, it is announced over the prison PA system who you are and what you did. Also a nice leaflet with a picture of you, your victim, and a description of your crimes, should be handed out to all of the other inmates.

White collar criminals need to be sent to regular prisons and put in general population. The guy that robs thousands of people of millions of dollars, is a more serious offender than some guy that robbed a 7-11. He should not get preferencial treatment.

I know I sound like a barbarian or something, but I could care less about sick violent criminals, and I have zero empathy for their condition. I know we live in a society that protects the rights of everyone, but I feel it has gone too far, and we are too forgiving as a society now.

All your solution to the problem would do is create a situation where those who are released from prison have no choice but to re-offend. They would have nowhere to turn and would be forced back into a life of crime.

All this for very little tangible gains. Very few criminals would feel like the increase in punishment is somehow a strong enough deterrent to persuade them from committing a crime in the first place. Most criminals don't have a rational conversation of risk vs. reward and then just decide that they should commit the crime.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by speede5

This is one of the reasons he is being charged, you are supposed to control your emotions. You may get a lesser penalty for an emotional response but it doesn't excuse bad behavior.

The more that is released about this the more damning it looks on the guy. He will probably get a slap on the wrist and I'm sure half the cops couldn't have cared less but you can't have people running around taking the law into their own hands.

I don't feel sorry for the 'victim' but I can't say I agree with the homeowner. How's that for fencesitting

Control your emotions when someone has looted your home? Easier said than done. Action needs to be taken.

How can you make excuses for the looter here? He deserved what he got.

I can't stand people who think we should just stand by and wait for the police to save the day. Those clowns rarely show up on time, and usually the damage is already done. What happened to self sufficiency?

I don't believe he was taking the law into his own hands, I believe he was taking the safety of him and his family in his own hands, and you cannot take that away from people.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

So let me get this straight:

You pull up to your house and there in your driveway is an unknown car and there's lights on in the house. You believe someone has broken in and is maybe inside. You tell your wife, "honey, hold on to your hat, 'cause i'm gonna go in there and lay a whippin on that boy in there... this is my house dammit, and it is my right to protect it". So you grab your axe and head in. Burglar now becomes the hunted and, as you swing your Paul Bunyonesque axe around periodically screaming out, "Yeeeee-haw", burglar bolts to his car to high tail it outta there. But, low and behold, you've blocked the "sonvab*tch" in. Then as he accelerates bashing into anything to get the heck out, you bash him in the teeth for good measure....

Fact of the matter is, that's a criminal offence. Sure, we can think of some sort of defence later on about the wifey being in danger, etc, etc but seriously... think this through.

Without establishing blame or determining causation (because in the end, does it really matter), does the decision to go in and confront this unknown intruder seem like a good one?

Even with the "Yeeeee-haw", that shouldn't be a crime.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by pylon

What do we need to do to improve our justice system?

We need to strip criminals of all of their rights. You get convicted of serious violent or sexual crime, you have none until you serve your full sentence. If you get an early release, you still have no rights until your probation is done. You get no health care, government assistance, unemployment benefits, no right to vote, no access to credit. You are also labeled with some sort of marker to inform anyone who comes into contact with you of what a piece of garbage you are. You can merely exist, like a stray dog, and have the same rights as that dog.

I can't believe I'm going to disagree with this. However in the case of first time offenders, then your creating a environment where a person is certainly going to offend again. I'm all for a more strict regime for violent offenders, and I have a special hatred in my heart for sexual offenders. But at some point you have to rehabilitate and reintigrate them into society. Again for first time offenders you have to give them a chance. Conversely I think we have to make prisons a harder place, not to survive, but make it a more unpleasant alternative, and quit making prisons a finishing school for criminal behavior. So, no T.V., no computers except for job training. Bring back hard labour sentences, don't allow criminals to complete their sentences while refusing to own up to their crimes. Force them to make restitution to their victims or the victims families. Make it a little tougher to get paroled, you should have to prove your remorse and show your steps to becoming a normal member of society. If your a drug head, then its segregation through rehab, and if after that your caught with drugs in your system while in prison its back to 6 moths of segregation.

For Multi time offenders, you serve a sentence to the Queens pleasure, which means if you reoffend violently you're probably not going to get out, you had your chance and blew it.

I'm still a fan of removing multitime violent offenders right from society to the arctic circle where your prison is a community with no guards, no rules. We air drop food in and if you want to escape its a thousand mile walk through the worst weather known to man.

Originally Posted by pylon

We need to re-instate the death penalty. In murder cases where there is zero doubt, or an admission of guilt, off to the chamber you go.

I agree with this to an extent, the problem is that nobody is going to confess, because murderers are cowards and don't want to die like a byatch. And there's rarely zero doubt. What about the insane, the sick, the drug addicted. I do however believe that in the case of 1st degree or intentional murder, the sentence is life, and life means life. I also believe that we need to bring back consecutive term sentencing. If there is parole its incredibly strigent and tough to get.

for multi timers its off to the arctic with you to count trees.

Originally Posted by pylon

We need to castrate child molesters on their first offenses. And I don't mean chemically, chop it all off. Female offenders should be sewn shut. Even though the libs out there might be disappointed, you know..... how they think child porn is art and all. And no segregation for diddlers any more. Off to general population you go, and when you show up, it is announced over the prison PA system who you are and what you did. Also a nice leaflet with a picture of you, your victim, and a description of your crimes, should be handed out to all of the other inmates.

I don't believe that Pedo's are treatable anymore then homosexuals can be "cured" Its a crime of sexual compulsion. Of all of the criminals to me that should never be back in society these guys and gals fit that bill. And while you can't really post pamphlets and post pictures, you can put them into general population.

Originally Posted by pylon

White collar criminals need to be sent to regular prisons and put in general population. The guy that robs thousands of people of millions of dollars, is a more serious offender than some guy that robbed a 7-11. He should not get preferencial treatment.

Are you talking about sending them to a maximum security prison for violent offenders? Because these white coller criminals might be scum bags, but they're not violent.

I believe that there has to be more restitution for these guys. IE a term of them getting parole is paying back their victims. If they're broke they'd better start punching license plates at 10 cents per plate. If they can't pay it off then they don't get parole.

Originally Posted by pylon

I know I sound like a barbarian or something, but I could care less about sick violent criminals, and I have zero empathy for their condition. I know we live in a society that protects the rights of everyone, but I feel it has gone too far, and we are too forgiving as a society now.

Not a barbarian, but its tough not to be fed up when you read about a baby sitter buggering a 5 year old girl and getting a 100 days in jail. Or these two sicko's that killed the proctor girl and are trying to cut a deal.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I can't believe I'm going to disagree with this. However in the case of first time offenders, then your creating a environment where a person is certainly going to offend again. I'm all for a more strict regime for violent offenders, and I have a special hatred in my heart for sexual offenders. But at some point you have to rehabilitate and reintigrate them into society. Again for first time offenders you have to give them a chance. ...

Given your post history I really think it is an unexpected response.

I think it also speaks volumes to how true the it really is.

As for people who are designated dangerous offenders, it is a waste of money to keep them around, they should be put into a boat and tossed into the ocean. If they manage to swim to shore then they should be allowed to live in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives...

[speede5]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Control your emotions when someone has looted your home? Easier said than done. Action needs to be taken.

How can you make excuses for the looter here? He deserved what he got.

I can't stand people who think we should just stand by and wait for the police to save the day. Those clowns rarely show up on time, and usually the damage is already done. What happened to self sufficiency?

I don't believe he was taking the law into his own hands, I believe he was taking the safety of him and his family in his own hands, and you cannot take that away from people.

You can't be serious. if you can't control your emotions when someone is stealing so mething you can easily replace you have issues. If he was so concerned about protecting his wife and himself he wouldn't even have gone in the house. I don't know about Taber, but around here if the perps are still in the house when the call is made the cops come screamin' After the fact there is no rush, but if they can catch them in the act they try very hard.

BTW I didn't make any excuses for the looter. I don't feel sorry for him, I just don't agree with the vigilante approach. You are proposing a society that takes the law into it's own hands, slippery slope. Say you bump into my car in the parking lot and try to drive away, I get pissed off and bust your nose? Did you get what you deserved?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by speede5

You can't be serious. if you can't control your emotions when someone is stealing so mething you can easily replace you have issues. If he was so concerned about protecting his wife and himself he wouldn't even have gone in the house. I don't know about Taber, but around here if the perps are still in the house when the call is made the cops come screamin' After the fact there is no rush, but if they can catch them in the act they try very hard.

BTW I didn't make any excuses for the looter. I don't feel sorry for him, I just don't agree with the vigilante approach. You are proposing a society that takes the law into it's own hands, slippery slope. Say you bump into my car in the parking lot and try to drive away, I get pissed off and bust your nose? Did you get what you deserved?

We have different values I guess. I prefer to be self sufficient.

I view the police as mostly useless. Time is a factor here and if you stand by and do nothing, you rarely get your property back and usually the criminal gets away.
Besides, the home owner can't be certain what the intentions of the intruder are. You don't know if the guy is there to rape your kids or take your VCR.

Also, I see a home invasion as much more threatening and invasive than your example of a car collision in a public setting.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by speede5

You can't be serious. if you can't control your emotions when someone is stealing so mething you can easily replace you have issues. If he was so concerned about protecting his wife and himself he wouldn't even have gone in the house. I don't know about Taber, but around here if the perps are still in the house when the call is made the cops come screamin' After the fact there is no rush, but if they can catch them in the act they try very hard.

BTW I didn't make any excuses for the looter. I don't feel sorry for him, I just don't agree with the vigilante approach. You are proposing a society that takes the law into it's own hands, slippery slope. Say you bump into my car in the parking lot and try to drive away, I get pissed off and bust your nose? Did you get what you deserved?

I don't think anyone who gets emotional or combatative when they are faced with a (partially) unknown threat is unusual. Especially when that person is standing in the middle of my living room. Who knows what their intentions are. If they bolt the opposite direction, then I will likely let them leave and be happy with just the loss of property, but anything that is the least bit aggressive towards me or my family and all bets are off.

There is a reason I keep aluminium baseball bats in the front and back closets and it isn't for the Saturday morning softball game.

[CaptainCrunch]

[fredr123]

The following seems relevant to the discussion about the Taber man:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron.../15877341.html

Remember that grocer in Toronto who was arrested after he chased down a dude who was stealing stuff from his shop? He was found not guilty this morning of all criminal charges.

Once again, Mikey using a thread to bash law enforcement. Something tells me has had many run-in's with police.

Anyway, everything you have described IS the reason he was charged with assault. You can't confront someone fleeing and beat their brains in. You can't get emotional and bash their brains in. You can't be "self sufficient" (whatever that means in this context) and bash their brains in.

I love the argument regarding blocking the guy in. "Well, where was he suppose to park?", "IT is a long driveway", etc, etc. Be an intelligent human being and drive to a safe place and call police. Sure the police might not get there as fast as you would like (afterall, that is MY VCR dammit and I love that machine), but at least your family is safe and you won't get arrested for bashing the bad guys brains in.

The whole premise that this guy was protecting his family considering HE was the one that put his family in danger is really ironic. He didn't become concerned for his family until the bad guy was attempting to bash his way out of the blockade he created. Again, the irony.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Once again, Mikey using a thread to bash law enforcement. Something tells me has had many run-in's with police.

Nope.

I have a speeding ticket or two but have never been charged with anything...ever.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Holy crap man.

Its a farm...long driveway to HIS house. He parked behind a car in his driveway...can you prove he was "blocking it in"? That quite a leap but even if he was...so frickin what??

Its his house and it would be of benefit to police, just guessing here, to help capture the criminals if you know...the guys car is there to seek clues from.

No idea how that then goes to looking for provocation for a confrontation...because its crystal clear he wasn't. If he was, he would have followed the scumbag and beat him when he was tangled up in the fence. He didn't do that. Why?


Oh and I can do little faces to.

Can I prove he was blocking it in? Nope, but I would say that the fact he has admitted that the guy rammed his car in an attempt to escape makes that a pretty strong certainty. Unless of course you think that there was a clear path of escape and the guy chose the path of most resistance. It would also put quite the whole in the defense theory the farmer seems to be using if there was a way out that didn't involve ramming the garage door his wife was behind.

Eliminating a way for the criminal to flee dramatically increases the chances that there will be a confrontation. It doesn't take arocket scientists to figure that one out. Why you can't grasp that is really quite puzzling actually.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Nope.

I have a speeding ticket or two but have never been charged with anything...ever.

Well I stand corrected. But the general hate and venom you spew towards police gets kind of tiresome.

Originally Posted by valo403

Can I prove he was blocking it in? Nope, but I would say that the fact he has admitted that the guy rammed his car in an attempt to escape makes that a pretty strong certainty. Unless of course you think that there was a clear path of escape and the guy chose the path of most resistance. It would also put quite the whole in the defense theory the farmer seems to be using if there was a way out that didn't involve ramming the garage door his wife was behind.

Eliminating a way for the criminal to flee dramatically increases the chances that there will be a confrontation. It doesn't take arocket scientists to figure that one out. Why you can't grasp that is really quite puzzling actually.

I agree with you. But he seems to fall back on the argument that it is HIS driveway and he has the RIGHT to park there regardless of whether their is a burglar, rapist or serial killer in his house. That is the decision that got him charged.