Barack Obama believed to be a Muslim by one fifth of Americans

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

When I first heard about the proposed mosque (and community center) I was a bit upset by it. Once I thought about it, and the bolded portion of your post was obvious to me from the start, I have come to the conclusion that the best thing Americans can do in a situation like this is show that they are BETTER than the extremists who perpetrated 9/11 and welcome these peace loving muslims with open arms.

Islamic fascists want war with America, for many different reasons, most of which are not even remotely justifiable. 9/11 was a result of their desire to create hatred as much as it was done to create havoc.

Break the cycle. I voted for Obama, the first time I have voted for a Presidential candidate with a D by his name and I have been disappointed in most of what he has done to date. However, I applaud him for his stance here and lets not forget Mayor Bloomberg who took the same stance long before the President. Kudos to him as well.

Bravo Dis. You and I have clashed on more than one occasion but I echo everything you posted (including being disappointed by Obama).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Do I dare ask who you believe actually destroyed the Twin Towers? Or do I even need to?

It was the gays.

[HOZ]

Muslim Canadian Congress asks some important questions too.

Mischief in Manhattan


So what gives Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the "Cordoba Initiative" and his cohorts the misplaced idea that they will increase tolerance for Muslims by brazenly displaying their own intolerance in this case?


Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?


There are many questions that we would like to ask. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans, as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis.


If Rauf is serious about building bridges, then he could have dedicated space in this so-called community centre to a church and synagogue, but he did not. We passed on this message to him through a mutual Saudi friend, but received no answer. He could have proposed a memorial to the 9/11 dead with a denouncement of the doctrine of armed jihad, but he chose not to.

It's a repugnant thought that $100 million would be brought into the United States rather than be directed at dying and needy Muslims in Darfur or Pakistan.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Muslim Canadian Congress asks some important questions too.

Mischief in Manhattan


So what gives Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the "Cordoba Initiative" and his cohorts the misplaced idea that they will increase tolerance for Muslims by brazenly displaying their own intolerance in this case?


Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?


There are many questions that we would like to ask. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans, as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis.


If Rauf is serious about building bridges, then he could have dedicated space in this so-called community centre to a church and synagogue, but he did not. We passed on this message to him through a mutual Saudi friend, but received no answer. He could have proposed a memorial to the 9/11 dead with a denouncement of the doctrine of armed jihad, but he chose not to.

It's a repugnant thought that $100 million would be brought into the United States rather than be directed at dying and needy Muslims in Darfur or Pakistan.

That's quite commendable that the Canadian Muslim Congress express themselves in an open and democratic country. As well as being against Sharia Law, they also support gender equality, gay rights and are active in the anti-war movement and other progressive ideas. Very small group though.

Glad to hear you're on their side.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, but this is a perfect time for people to attack the tea party, and lump them all together into one nice group that is racist, and full of bigots.

Hell, because they never had a problem with the outrageous spending and government policies during the Bush administration, they should shut up now. Better to let them country go to hell than to stand up and protest.

I know you say it a lot, but surely you don't believe all this BS about small government and Right vs. Left?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I know you say it a lot, but surely you don't believe all this BS about small government and Right vs. Left?

As in Republicans believe in small government, Democrats don't? No I don't believe it. Republicans and Democrats have slightly different approaches, but more or less the same outcome.

Doesn't change the fact that the US is not exactly on a sustainable path, and needs to fix a LOT of things.

I pointed out in a different thread that the US is in a similar situation that Canada was in during the 90s, although ours was a smaller scale(smaller country).

We had to cut back. We had to reform, and people suffered because of that. But we're stronger in every aspect today because of it.

[Azure]

The mosque issue isn't as black and white as some make it out to be. Sure, they should be able to build it. I have no issue with that.

But 9/11 is very much a fresh wound in the hearts of New Yorkers, and the city absolutely has to consider the public voice.

Also, article about the St. Nicholas Church that isn't being rebuilt at Ground Zero either.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/ny.../19church.html

Since some of you probably think CB is making it up, I figured I would post it.

[Pinner]

Some nut job will bomb it now anyhow.

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by Azure

The mosque issue isn't as black and white as some make it out to be. Sure, they should be able to build it. I have no issue with that.

But 9/11 is very much a fresh wound in the hearts of New Yorkers, and the city absolutely has to consider the public voice.

Also, article about the St. Nicholas Church that isn't being rebuilt at Ground Zero either.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/ny.../19church.html

Since some of you probably think CB is making it up, I figured I would post it.

It seems like it is a fresh wound for people who don't live in New York and have no personal stake in the area. Of the polls I've read, the majority of New Yorkers are in favour of the centre being built. So are they not listening to the public voice?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

It seems like it is a fresh wound for people who don't live in New York and have no personal stake in the area. Of the polls I've read, the majority of New Yorkers are in favour of the centre being built. So are they not listening to the public voice?

Well either way, I think the city still has to consider the public voice.

I still think it should be built though. I think a lot of people have a misconception of what it will actually look like.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Americans have and continue to show tolerance and respect towards Muslims living in New York and across America. They bent over backwards not to lump them all into one basket. They did this even though the terrorist were found to come out of the same Mosques as their peace loving counterpart. America deserves a lot of credit for their restraint in trying times.

That's good stuff right there. You don't actually believe that, do you? Isn't the U.S. deployed in other countries right now fighting people?

In fact, hasn't the U.S., for the majority of its entire existence, been involved in some kind of conflict or war?

I don't expect it to change, it is fully engrained in their culture and national psyche now. Americans fight. Their country is far from tolerant or a symbol of restraint. Actually, they're probably the most hypocritical country on earth.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

In fact, hasn't the U.S., for the majority of its entire existence, been involved in some kind of conflict or war?

I don't expect it to change, it is fully engrained in their culture and national psyche now. Americans fight. Their country is far from tolerant or a symbol of restraint. Actually, they're probably the most hypocritical country on earth.

The US has also been involved in a lot of the wars for most of it's history because there is an expectation from other countries of the US involvement. It's certainly easy for Canada to sit back and judge the actions of the US when the world doesn't look to Canada to be the line of first defense.

For the US it's kind of like damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

That's good stuff right there. You don't actually believe that, do you? Isn't the U.S. deployed in other countries right now fighting people?

In fact, hasn't the U.S., for the majority of its entire existence, been involved in some kind of conflict or war?

I don't expect it to change, it is fully engrained in their culture and national psyche now. Americans fight. Their country is far from tolerant or a symbol of restraint. Actually, they're probably the most hypocritical country on earth.

As RockinFlames just said their is an expectation put on America to be involved when things go down. Personally I'm glad they are there and willing to play the role of world policeman. Even considering their mistakes and excesses we as a world are better off with them. If America ever shrinks back from that role because of neccesity or political change our world will be a lot darker and a lot more cruel. Nothing will restrain bigger Nations from swallowing up smaller Nations and it will be done with little regard to the civilians during or after. China and a newly revived Russia will fill the void left by the States and their standards for human rights and due process will become the lot of everyone that comes under their influence.

But, in any case, when I commented that America should be commended for their restraint in trying times I wasn't refering to their government but, rather ordinary Americans. They seemed even in their grief and anger to go out of their way to differentuate between Muslims who want to kill them and Muslims who want to live in peace. It would have been so easy not to and have a visiable enemy they could strike back at but, they took the high road. Look at the treatment of the Japanese and Germans in World War II. America didn't go down that path again nor did they alienate them within their communities.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

As RockinFlames just said their is an expectation put on America to be involved when things go down. Personally I'm glad they are there and willing to play the role of world policeman. Even considering their mistakes and excesses we as a world are better off with them. If America ever shrinks back from that role because of neccesity or political change our world will be a lot darker and a lot more cruel. Nothing will restrain bigger Nations from swallowing up smaller Nations and it will be done with little regard to the civilians during or after. China and a newly revived Russia will fill the void left by the States and their standards for human rights and due process will become the lot of everyone that comes under their influence.

But, in any case, when I commented that America should be commended for their restraint in trying times I wasn't refering to their government but, rather ordinary Americans. They seemed even in their grief and anger to go out of their way to differentuate between Muslims who want to kill them and Muslims who want to live in peace. It would have been so easy not to and have a visiable enemy they could strike back at but, they took the high road. Look at the treatment of the Japanese and Germans in World War II. America didn't go down that path again nor did they alienate them within their communities.

Wait, who expects this? Americans, or people from other countries?

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

I've only lived in California for a year and LOL that is pretty accurate.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Wait, who expects this? Americans, or people from other countries?

As an American, I certainly don't. Frankly, I'm tired of it.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

It seems like it is a fresh wound for people who don't live in New York and have no personal stake in the area. Of the polls I've read, the majority of New Yorkers are in favour of the centre being built. So are they not listening to the public voice?

Marchhare provided a link here that shows that a majority of New Yorkers is 60% against it. Only those in Manhattan show a majority in favour.

AND it is not just New Yorkers that suffered that attack.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Marchhare provided a link here that shows that a majority of New Yorkers is 60% against it. Only those in Manhattan show a majority in favour.

AND it is not just New Yorkers that suffered that attack.

So the view of the people of Manhattan isn't that important but if it is built in their neighborhood it does matter?

How many blocks is that magical distance when americans can practise their legal rights again?

Some of you guys have been suckered in on stupid wedge issue if this was not an election year it would never be mentioned.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

This is some great stuff.

Originally Posted by HOZ

There are many questions that we would like to ask. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans, as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis.

If Rauf is serious about building bridges, then he could have dedicated space in this so-called community centre to a church and synagogue, but he did not. We passed on this message to him through a mutual Saudi friend, but received no answer. He could have proposed a memorial to the 9/11 dead with a denouncement of the doctrine of armed jihad, but he chose not to.

So, these two are saying that if the money is coming from Saudi sources, then it is suspect because there were Saudis amidst the 9/11 accomplices. In other words, 9/11 accomplices were Saudis, therefore money coming from Saudis is coming from terrorists.

So what did they do? They asked their Saudi buddy about it.

The unintentional-irony-when-using-guilt-by-association angel is shedding many tears.


And really, their claim that the organizers of this center need to build additional Christian / Jewish faith facilities within their center to show their tolerance is an absolutely ridiculous demand / request / suggestion / standard.

And Bloomberg is a "teary-eyed, bleeding heart liberal"??? Wow.


I trust the Muslim Canadian Congress deserves better than what these two were able to brainstorm and regurgitate onto the page.

[SeeBass]

^^
I guess people aren't aware that Fox's second biggest owner is a Saudi

Must be a terrorist front too and it is right in Manhattan!!!