Bullying in schools, what can be done?

[Traditional_Ale]

^ So true. It demands an immeadiate and appropriate response.

[IliketoPuck]

The fight against the bully definitely doesn't have to be fair.

[habernac]

Right until grade 10, I was the smallest kid in class. I didn't have any issues until about grade 4. There was one guy who was merciless. I'm 40 years old and if I saw him tomorrow I'd probably beat him half to death.

Jr High was almost as bad. Again, pick on the tiny kid. By the time High School started, I was bound and determined to not be bothered again. I punched a grade 12 kid on the nose day 1. No one bothered me again.

I wish I had stood up for myself earlier instead of running away or taking it. My Dad was a big guy, never had to deal with what I did so he didn't understand.

I have a son now and he will learn to be nice to smaller kids and to not take garbage from others. He's going to be bigger than me, which will help.

[Howie_16]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

I think a number of us have made the point.....stand up to the bully.

The key is to teach children to stand up to bullying when they see it, not just when it is happening to them. The power is not really held by the bully, it instead lies with the bystanders.

[photon]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Bringing the legal system into it doesn't support your point as it helps the criminals as much as the victims these days....

So you agree then, might as well scrap the whole legal system and just let whoever has "more courage" win the day?

Brilliant.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Frankly, if your kid is completely unable to deal with adversity then they should be home schooled....

Yeah, stupid kid why should they be expected to be given an safe environment to grow up and learn how to deal with adversity in? If a kid can't deal with adversity by the time they're six years old and hit grade one, too bad, release the hounds.

In fact they should hire bullies to roam the schools to make sure everyone gets some adversity, because you know part of life is getting beat up every day while driving home from a long day at the office.

I'm just amazed that you can post two things in a row that are so completely contradict each other without seeing that.

First complain about a legal system that supposedly supports the criminals, and then turn around and say the school system should support the offenders and the victims should be forced to leave.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

You know....they could actually teach things like self-esteem, confidence, courage IN class at a younger age....crazy I know.

Sure, but teaching it and learning it are two different things, and no matter how much you teach it you're always going to have a range of it, and one end is always going to pick on the other end.

And that's fine, almost everyone gets picked on, almost everyone gets the short end of the social stick sometimes.. but that's different than bullying.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Igottago

One side of the story I never hear about is the parents of the bully. Do they care that their son/daughter is tormenting some other kid? Do they step in and discipline their child? Do they just ignore it and pretend their kid isn't capable of it? I think a lot of parents get defensive when their kids are accused of doing something wrong.

Perhaps the parent of the bully should be bullied into being a better parent.

I know if I had a kid who was the bully, I would whip his ass and teach him about having some respect for the vulnerable, not taking advantage of them. I have a sneaking suspicion that sometimes the parents of bully's endorse their behaviour.

Finding out that your kid is a has gotta be a real hard moment. I'd probably internalize it first to try and figure out what we're doing that is allowing for that behavior. If it turns out that they're just being a selfish little jerk, there are enough chores around the house/yard to keep them busy til rapture.

Not to threadjack here but....the best punishment my parents ever gave me was "Dig a hole, fill it in, repeat". If I did something really bad (like cheat on a certain Physics test....), I could look forward to a weekend with the shovel. Much more effective than "Go to your room" or getting a foot in the backside.

[Traditional_Ale]

Photon:

While I agree that every kid deserves a safe enviornment to grow and learn in, and that if bullying went to the extreme that the kid died from fear then teachers are partly to blame for sure, but in all honesty everyone can only do so much. There are in fact some kids who would be better off in a home-school situation for a year or two to develop more before coming into the classroom. Weird as it hasn't been that way before, but then again kids going into kindergarten weren't using things like the internet.

[HeartsOfFire]

I had a bullying recovery story to share, but because this stupid site times out your login after an incredibly short period of time, I was told I had to log back in to post it. Of course, I lost the whole story I had typed, so screw it.

Long story short, I fully support victims of bullying getting violent -- even fatally so -- in an effort to stop bullying from continuing if no authority figure does anything to stop it.

When a scared dog has nowhere further to run, the only option left is to bite.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Photon:

While I agree that every kid deserves a safe enviornment to grow and learn in, and that if bullying went to the extreme that the kid died from fear then teachers are partly to blame for sure, but in all honesty everyone can only do so much. There are in fact some kids who would be better off in a home-school situation for a year or two to develop more before coming into the classroom. Weird as it hasn't been that way before, but then again kids going into kindergarten weren't using things like the internet.

Maybe, but home schooling or moving to another school should be an option AFTER the bully has been removed from the school in question.. if it's gone past a specific point anyway.

Because really if you remove child 1 from the school is the bully going to stop bullying because their target is gone? Of course not, they're just going to find new targets. And they're learning an important lesson.. if they bully enough their victims can be forced to leave, so they have even more power.

[RubberDuck]

What kids grow up these days in the Norman Rockwell world you are all decsribing? These movie like storylines of the weak kid standing up to the bully and prevailing. It's not 1975 anymore.

What used to be a one on one fair fight at the bike racks after school is now five or six kids waiting until another is alone and beating them unconscious. And that's only if they forgot their weapons.

In this day and age, a smaller kid embarrassing a bully at school in front of his peers will more than likely lead to retribution far more severe than the initial bullying. Before you go and get someones kid killed or seriously hurt, you guys need to think about the times we are living in.

[IliketoPuck]

Photon, that reinforces the point that you have to stand up to the bully.

[IliketoPuck]

If kida are going to get jumped, and beaten unconcious and have weapons used against them, then its clear its not a simple school yard matter. Bring the police in if that is the case.

And charge them in Adult court for their actions. Have fun being someone's b*tch in jail bullies.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

I had a bullying recovery story to share, but because this stupid site times out your login after an incredibly short period of time, I was told I had to log back in to post it. Of course, I lost the whole story I had typed, so screw it.

Long story short, I fully support victims of bullying getting violent -- even fatally so -- in an effort to stop bullying from continuing if no authority figure does anything to stop it.

When a scared dog has nowhere further to run, the only option left is to bite.

Isn't there a flipside to this strategy? How about Columbine?

I know most of us are thinking it'd be great to see the bullied kid just give the bully a good smack and it would stop. I just don't think its always possible in every situation. What if your bully is someone who resembles 50 cent and runs with a pack of thugs at lunch time? You gonna go shove him and expect him to stop? Kids are becomes "gangstas" as early as junior high nowadays. I think a lot of you guys are are framing the bullying as something that resembles an episode of Leave it to Beaver or something from the 1950's.

[IliketoPuck]

Strand them on an island in the middle of the pacific ocean?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by photon

So you agree then, might as well scrap the whole legal system and just let whoever has "more courage" win the day?

Brilliant.

First complain about a legal system that supposedly supports the criminals, and then turn around and say the school system should support the offenders and the victims should be forced to leave.

Where did I say the school system should support the offenders? I was making a sarcastic comment. Should I use green text for you next time?

It is much easier to train kids to deal with bullying properly than try to eliminate bullying. Bullying will NEVER be 100% absent from the school system.

But you are right photon, we should just shield children from everything so we end up with a nation of wusses....

The school system is just like the legal system in some ways. The teachers hands are tied.... We must put the onus on the kids to deal with it the best they can.......or in extreme cases you may have to bring the cops in.

[HeartsOfFire]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Isn't there a flipside to this strategy? How about Columbine?

Columbine was a wake-up call.

I know most of us are thinking it'd be great to see the bullied kid just give the bully a good smack and it would stop. I just don't think its always possible in every situation. What if your bully is someone who resembles 50 cent and runs with a pack of thugs at lunch time? You gonna go shove him and expect him to stop? Kids are becomes "gangstas" as early as junior high nowadays. I think a lot of you guys are are framing the bullying as something that resembles an episode of Leave it to Beaver or something from the 1950's.

I'm 27 now, so yeah, I'm not too partial about what bully's look like in school nowadays. But if what you say is true, then I'm willing to put money down that said student is already struggling academically and is only at school because he's legally forced to be there. In that case, every effort must be taken to get authorities involved, from faculty staff to school resource officers, or whatever they're calling the cops stationed in schools nowadays.

If that fails, well then, just let me take this key off my keyring here... the one that opens up the lockbox under my bed... Oh gee, that reminds me, I have to go get some groceries, so I will not be in the house for at least an hour... without that key... for the lockbox under the bed... see you when I get back.

[Sly]

From my experience in junior high and high school, the people who get picked on or bullied, don't get picked on for no reason. I knew a guy who would constantly get picked on.... you know why? Because he had personal issues. He would punch girls and spit people in the face, act like an idiot and would annoy the crap out of you even you did not know him.

[HeartsOfFire]

Maybe in your experience, Sly. But don't kid yourself, there is a schoolyard pecking order, and there will be kids that will get picked on, provoked and not.

In terms of pecking order, I was the kid that was embarassingly inept in gym class but did exceptionally well academically, was in chess club, and was socially awkward. I never had that outgoing vibe. I was shy, reserved, and preferred solitude over a group of good friends. I was easy pickings for alpha males.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Cyber bullying is probably the worst. Its extremely hard to regulate it but there have been some nice stories in Calgary where some public schools have issued suspensions for cyber bullying. We live in such a sarcastic world that teachers have a very hard time trying to figure out if people are actually bullying or just joking around.

I am not a parent or anything but I would really like to see schools enforce much more when it comes to this, I hate reading about suicides due to bullying.

The power of schools to enforce anything these days is basically non-existant. Bullying was never such a huge problem 25+ years ago, it was taken care of in most cases.

Problem is, these days, too many parents are too hung up about the self-esteem of their children and are unable to distinguish between discipline of their children and abuse of their children.

So when little Johnny goes to school, and gets disciplined for something routine, too often Mommy and Daddy get on the teacher's case for disciplining their child and hurting that child's self-esteem. In all too many of these cases, the parents should be teaching their kids that there are consequences for one's actions, not only in school but in life.

Bullying is a societal problem. Sadly, with the cost of living necessitating the need for both parents to work these days, everyone is so busy and so tired that in the end they think it should be someone else's problem to take care of.

Bullying also has to be addressed immediately and early on in life because it is something that builds and will not disappear on its own.

First and foremost, in these situations, parents must address the physical safety of their children. If the bullying situation is not resolving itself, as some have suggested, the child has to be physically removed from this environment. Yes, I know it will further complicate the lives of the parents and of the child, but the physical safely of these children being bullied is paramount.

Our daughter was bullied when she was in Grade 1. A boy in Grade 4 would come and randomly kick small girls...and with enough force, that our daughter ended up in emergency.

By the way, if that ever happens to any of your children, there are excellent services offered in emergency that help you address the situation.

We were told to immediately inform the police, as well as the principle of the school of course. And we knew the name of this boy, so got the phone number of the boy's parents from the principle as well.

The police told us that this is assault and abuse and they would be willing to deal with the situation then and there. Otherwise, they told us to call both the principle and the parents and tell them that this is assault and abuse and as such, if there is one more incident, it will be handled in the courts. We tried the phone calls first to see if that would rectify the problem and it did. That was the end of the bullying problem regarding our daughter. But it was handled early on.

We are the caretakers of those we bring into this world, and it is my personal opinion that we should be the ones to address the bullying and not ask our children to take care of it by themselves.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

If that fails, well then, just let me take this key off my keyring here... the one that opens up the lockbox under my bed... Oh gee, that reminds me, I have to go get some groceries, so I will not be in the house for at least an hour... without that key... for the lockbox under the bed... see you when I get back.

Dude, this is disturbing. Almost a lesson in sociopathy for a kid.