If it is observer bias how does it work in double blind studies (the placebo effect, not homeopathics)? and yes the placebo effect is people getting better on their own. That is pretty much the definition of the placebo effect. But the mind is powerful, and homeopathy can put people's minds in the right state. Whether it is the mind that helps heal, or the fact that people think they feel better and actually get off their butt and maybe actually accidentally exercise or something along those lines and they get better.
I read an interesting chapter in Snake Oil Science last night, on the placebo effect. Recent research suggests the brain releases opiates that provide pain relief, when the patient is told they are being given an effective treatment (which is in fact an inert substance). There are likely other unproven physical effects.
When subjects were told they would receive painkillers, the parts of the brain that produce our bodies' natural painkillers, the mu-opioid receptors, kicked up a storm.
The brain activity was proportional to the expectations the subjects had about how effective the painkillers would be. The researchers say this is the first direct evidence that endorphins can help explain how the placebo effect works.
"This deals a serious blow to the idea that the placebo effect is a purely psychological, not physical, phenomenon," lead researcher Jon-Kar Zubieta told SciAm. "We were able to see that the endorphin system was activated in pain-related areas of the brain, and that activity increased when someone was told they were receiving a medicine to ease their pain."
The research was published in the Journal of Neuroscience.
Last edited by troutman; 07-28-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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Sorry, I don't get what the argument here is or if this is an argument. Because a doctor is there to fix the problems of an unhealthy lifestyle, it is the same thing. But a naturopath is usually (at least good ones) trying to fix the unhealthy lifestyle rather than treat the disease that may be caused by the unhealthy lifestyle. The biggest problem in North America is an unhealthy lifestyle hands down.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, and if I had to choose for myself I would you conventional treatments in combination with alternatives (such as nutritionalists, ND's, etc).
People usually go to their doctor first, and the doctor will usually tell them they need to lose weight, eat healthy, exercise, etc, etc. Well, some people don't listen to to their doctor, because living 'healthy' is too hard, so they run to these alternative medicines to seek a magic cure for an ailment that can easily be cured by living a healthy lifestyle.
There is nothing wrong with getting diet/nutrition advice, or going to the chiropractor after you got run over playing hockey, or even getting acupuncture done to help alleviate some muscle soreness, but it shouldn't be looked at as a 'cure.'
Oh, and I don't understand going to a Naturopath for diet advice when most hospitals have a dietitian on site. Nevermind that you can find almost all the information they would charge money to tell you online for free.
I've spent the past 3-4 years just reading everything I could find when it comes to fitness and nutrition, and I can honestly say that no Naturopath is going to tell me something I don't already know.
I said it earlier in this thread. The human body is as simple as it is complex.
Is this guy a moron? Diet Soda and Orange juice have approximately the same pH, is he saying OJ is just as bad as Diet soda?
Also, he says that the pH of vegetables is on the alkaline side. The pH of Oranges, bananas, grapes and most fruits is actually pretty acidic.
Actually you need to listen again. It's made quite clear in the video. To answer your question, no he is not a or the moron. No need to instantly attack his message. He does a good job simplifying how foods react in the body.
Actually you need to listen again. It's made quite clear in the video. To answer your question, no he is not a or the moron. No need to instantly attack his message. He does a good job simplifying how foods react in the body.
He does a good job simplifying how foods react in the body? How do you know what he is saying is scientifically valid, all I see is two hands?
Actually you need to listen again. It's made quite clear in the video. To answer your question, no he is not a or the moron. No need to instantly attack his message. He does a good job simplifying how foods react in the body.
Here's an even better explanation of how your body processes food:
This explanation has been approved by this scientician:
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There's one form of woo that I've dealt with before, but haven't revisited. It's a bit of woo that's so monumentally silly that it's hard to believe that anyone can take it seriously, although I will admit up front that it is not quite as silly as homeopathy. It's close though. I'm talking, of course, about pH woo, the concept that pretty much every disease (or at least a whole heck of a lot of them) is caused by alterations in your blood pH, usually to the acid side, and that all you have to do to restore health is to "alkalinize your blood."
I watch a Surgeon's video on the circulatory system over 5 months back. He specialized in heart bypass I believe, but I can't remember for sure. For the life of me I can't remember his name as well. He was talking about completely eliminating animal products from the diet. Basically if the fat type is not in liquid form at room temperature (like vegetable fats) then there is a good chance it will stay solid in your body as well. All animal fat is solid at room temperature. I did not like this man after this video.
The problem isnīt that I am against NDīs, its assumed I am it seems. But that Iīm all for options for health treatments as long as its proven, and can truly help people. We need NDs to be a real solid option for people to help remove some of the burden to our health care systems.
The problem is when we have NDs who use real common sense help on nutrition, lifestyle changes and then add on something totally unproven and blur the line between what is going to help you and what isnīt.
I think weīve all agreed the placebo affect is something NDs can truly offer up as real help to people, but why are people so willing to accept things that simply have no basis in reality with regards to the claims made?
In order for this field to be taken seriously they have to regulate and work towards legitimizing themselves and distancing themselves from homeopaths, healing touch practitioners, etc..
I think there is a misconception that ND's or homeopathic doctors. But those are two totally different things. although some ND's do practice homeopathy, but everybody that argues against an ND is usually taking about a homeopathic 'doctor' for their reasoning
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- Aristotle
There's one form of woo that I've dealt with before, but haven't revisited. It's a bit of woo that's so monumentally silly that it's hard to believe that anyone can take it seriously, although I will admit up front that it is not quite as silly as homeopathy. It's close though. I'm talking, of course, about pH woo, the concept that pretty much every disease (or at least a whole heck of a lot of them) is caused by alterations in your blood pH, usually to the acid side, and that all you have to do to restore health is to "alkalinize your blood."
Orac is the nom de blog of a (not so) humble pseudonymous surgeon/scientist with an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his miscellaneous verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few will. (Continued here, along with a DISCLAIMER that you should read before reading any medical discussions here.)
DISCLAMER!!!! this blog is intended for discussion and entertainment purposes only and not as recommendations about how to diagnose or treat illnesses.
The guy is also not giving his real name...
ANY link to this site is a joke.
The bottom line is - do what you want. By talking vitamins regularly, and decreasing my meat intake greatly and increasing my veggies in addition to getting my sweat on daily, I have increased my health dramatically.
Orac is the nom de blog of a (not so) humble pseudonymous surgeon/scientist with an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his miscellaneous verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few will. (Continued here, along with a DISCLAIMER that you should read before reading any medical discussions here.)
DISCLAMER!!!! this blog is intended for discussion and entertainment purposes only and not as recommendations about how to diagnose or treat illnesses.
The guy is also not giving his real name...
ANY link to this site is a joke.
Do Dietitians and Other Health Care Professionals Recommend Alkaline Diets?
No. Studies of alkaline diet are limited to animal and test tube trials. There's no scientific evidence at this time that alkaline diets are beneficial to humans.
Oh, and I don't understand going to a Naturopath for diet advice when most hospitals have a dietitian on site. Nevermind that you can find almost all the information they would charge money to tell you online for free.
Well I would say there is a huge difference between a nutritionalist (lumping ND's into the nutritionalist) and a dietitian. Dietitians basically teach the canadian food guide as a standard, especially the hospital dietitians where you are just trying to give idiots the basic health advice a nutritionalist can give you much much more.
I've seen dietitian courses at SAIT that are a joke because it is sponsored by the pork industry so the whole course is bias. So as always there can be bad one and good ones.
As for knowing everything already, I would doubt that. There is tons of information. I just learned about the link between calcium and weight loss and how used right dairy products can help you lose weight on a reduced calorie diet faster then the reduced calorie diet allow. Calcium supplements will be better than nothing, but having the dairy present is best. Just saying I've read a lot too, but there is still a lot I do not know.
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- Aristotle
The bottom line is - do what you want. By talking vitamins regularly, and decreasing my meat intake greatly and increasing my veggies in addition to getting my sweat on daily, I have increased my health dramatically.
In my opinion, the key is to eat a traditional diet, and to avoid the western diet. Eat something that has been proven over centuries to be effective and healthy. Use veggies as the main course, meat as a flavour enhancer, and eat more oily fish.
Food Rules by Michael Pollan is a fantastic little manual with a "rule" on each page. Don't eat food with ingredients you wouldn't keep in your pantry. Don't eat food with ingredients your grandmother wouldn't recognize. Take as much time eating the food as it took to make it. Don't eat food that doesn't rot. Avoid food that has more than five ingredients (not counting recipes with natural ingredients). Don't eat cereals that change the colour of the milk, etc.
__________________
"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
Last edited by HPLovecraft; 07-28-2010 at 05:04 PM.
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