Like I mentioned earlier. Most of the big name countries playing the CC don't put too much emphasis on this tournament. Brazil is playing with some guys that might not be there come WC time, same with Italy and Spain. More than anything this is pretty much exhibition. I'm much happier with the way Brazil is looking but there's no true way to judge quality or lack there of at the moment.
spain is playing with their full squad save for a couple guys who are injured.
Like I mentioned earlier. Most of the big name countries playing the CC don't put too much emphasis on this tournament. Brazil is playing with some guys that might not be there come WC time, same with Italy and Spain. More than anything this is pretty much exhibition. I'm much happier with the way Brazil is looking but there's no true way to judge quality or lack there of at the moment.
It may be a second class tournament, but the first class teams to beat are there (Spain and Brazil), and they brought the majority of their starters. Italy did too... and that's the problem. Brazil and Spain are young, prime teams. Italy's is spent, and rather than using a second class tournament to usher in a new group, they used it to confirm the old guard is mediocre at best now.
It may be a second class tournament, but the first class teams to beat are there (Spain and Brazil), and they brought the majority of their starters. Italy did too... and that's the problem. Brazil and Spain are young, prime teams. Italy's is spent, and rather than using a second class tournament to usher in a new group, they used it to confirm the old guard is mediocre at best now.
As you said, it's good they bombed. Now if they win the European U21, they'll bring most of those players in.
I still wouldn't underestimate Italy next year.
I'm still confident about Brazil next year. Very difficult to beat Brazil in a World Cup outside of Europe.
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
As you said, it's good they bombed. Now if they win the European U21, they'll bring most of those players in.
I still wouldn't underestimate Italy next year.
I'm still confident about Brazil next year. Very difficult to beat Brazil in a World Cup outside of Europe.
If they win the European U21 (dumb name, seeing as every team's best players are 21+ and tenured in), they should bring in several of those players, as well as the top players in the last WC friendlies that were ignored for the Confederation Cup, namely Pazzini, Foggia and D'Agostino.
However, as much as I'd love the conspiracy theory about intentionally fielding a weak team at the CC to force out the old guard to be true, Lippi gives me that old Sutter vibe that they simply don't trust young players and that experience is everything. While Sutter might be slowly changing his tune, I don't think Lippi has been knocked prematurely out enough to change his outlook.
Here's my bold prediction, assuming that Buffon, Chiellini, De Rossi, and Rossi are locks:
If Italy's WC 2010 roster does not feature most of this group of Marchetti, Santon, De Ceglie, Criscito, Giovinco, Marchisio, D'Agostino, Pazzini, Santacroce, Bocchetti, Foggia, Cassano, Amauri and Cigarini;
and if it features more than maybe a couple of: Legrottaglie, Gamberini, Del Piero, Quagliarella, and Pepe;
and if it features ANY of: Amelia, Zambrotta, Dossena, Gattuso and Toni;
and if players like Montolivo, Aquilani, Iaquinta, Palombo, and Gilardino are anything more than supporting depth or last minute replacements;
and if they rely too heavily on and overplay: Cannavaro, Grosso, Pirlo, and Camoranesi;
They will be knocked out at the Group Stage.
Last edited by Thunderball; 06-23-2009 at 01:20 AM.
If they win the European U21 (dumb name, seeing as every team's best players are 21+ and tenured in), they should bring in several of those players, as well as the top players in the last WC friendlies that were ignored for the Confederation Cup, namely Pazzini, Foggia and D'Agostino.
However, as much as I'd love the conspiracy theory about intentionally fielding a weak team at the CC to force out the old guard to be true, Lippi gives me that old Sutter vibe that they simply don't trust young players and that experience is everything. While Sutter might be slowly changing his tune, I don't think Lippi has been knocked prematurely out enough to change his outlook.
Here's my bold prediction, assuming that Buffon, Chiellini, De Rossi, and Rossi are locks:
If Italy's WC 2010 roster does not feature most of this group of Marchetti, Santon, Criscito, Giovinco, Marchisio, D'Agostino, Pazzini, Santacroce, Bocchetti, Foggia, Cassano, Amauri and Cigarini;
....
Can you get all these guys ready in one year? You're changing the entire back four! Most have never played for Italy at Senior level.
I think you'll have to keep taking some of the old guard at least for next year. Your youngsters might be more suited for 2012.
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
With Pirlo, Camoranesi, Santacroce/Bocchetti, Del Piero/Cassano, Cigarini, Pazzini and Criscito/De Ceglie as the likely substitutes.
Not a wholesale change at all. As far as starters go, only one new face in the back four. The big change would be up front, but the 4-3-3 system doesn't work for Italy anyway. Still a lot of experience mixed in with a very fast, young and skilled midfield.
With Pirlo, Camoranesi, Santacroce/Bocchetti, Del Piero/Cassano, Cigarini, Pazzini and Criscito/De Ceglie as the likely substitutes.
Not a wholesale change at all. As far as starters go, only one new face in the back four. The big change would be up front, but the 4-3-3 system doesn't work for Italy anyway. Still a lot of experience mixed in with a very fast, young and skilled midfield.
That is very fast.. but still too inexperienced. I think good international defenders and good coaches could swallow that team up.
BTW The Score will be showing the Italy U21 match at 6pm so if you don't know the score.. don't find out
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
That is very fast.. but still too inexperienced. I think good international defenders and good coaches could swallow that team up.
BTW The Score will be showing the Italy U21 match at 6pm so if you don't know the score.. don't find out
I think that's why you keep guys like Pirlo, Camoranesi and Del Piero around if added experience is needed. However, I think experience is a little overrated. Plus, when you get down to it, it only looks like a young team because Italy tends to field such old teams. It would blend right in with the average.
Amauri, D'Agostino, De Rossi and Chiellini are all over 25. Buffon, Cannavaro and Grosso are over 30. Mid-twenties aren't exactly young when you consider likely NT players Aguero, Messi, Benzema, Gourcuff, Pato, Ramires, Pique, Fabregas, Moutinho, Nani, Walcott, and Lennon will all be 23 or under in 2010. Half the German NT is 25 or under.
Then consider the "inexperienced" Santon, Marchisio, Giovinco, Criscito, De Ceglie, Rossi, Bocchetti, Pazzini, and Rossi will all be playing on either Champions League or UEFA cup clubs. D'Agostino, if the rumors are true, will be as well. Plus, there's 12 months to get these guys some playing time for the Azzurri.
As for the U21s, I can't wait till 6pm... I'm getting live updates from uefa.com
Last edited by Thunderball; 06-23-2009 at 01:31 PM.
Got a weird feeling that the US is on a high and might pull off an upset.. might go to penalties..
Am I nuts?
As Thunderball says anything can happen in a one game elimination but considering how good Spain is and how bad the Americans are I don't really see anyway Spain loses unless every single thing goes wrong for them.
If the Americans were good or even decent or Spain was just average perhaps I could see the upset but I think the talent gap is much too big for the Americans to overcome.
As Thunderball says anything can happen in a one game elimination but considering how good Spain is and how bad the Americans are I don't really see anyway Spain loses unless every single thing goes wrong for them.
If the Americans were good or even decent or Spain was just average perhaps I could see the upset but I think the talent gap is much too big for the Americans to overcome.
I don't think its fair at all to call the Americans a lousy team. They are definitely second tier in this tournament, but globally they are probably top 15-20 (FIFA has them ranked #14), they are deceptively good. They're easily the best in CONCACAF, and probably #3 or #4 in the Americas.
However, like I said, still don't see the upset coming, but they have some very good players, and Spain (Euro 2008 notwithstanding) are known for being choke artists. Then again, this is probably the best Spanish team I've ever seen.
Last edited by Thunderball; 06-24-2009 at 12:49 PM.
Well it looks like Spain may just choke this one away yet.
When I said terrible I meant in terms of real soccer countries/competitions.
The US isn't close to being competitive with the teams in Europe and SA. They may be near the top of also rans but really for a team like Spain they should be no competition/trouble at all.
Spain are bombarding the American net in the second half but still can't breakthrough. Howard making some great saves and American defenders throwing themselves at shots like hockey defenders blocking shots from the point.
It's been a really good game.
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
I don't think its fair at all to call the Americans a lousy team. They are definitely second tier in this tournament, but globally they are probably top 15-20 (FIFA has them ranked #14), they are deceptively good. They're easily the best in CONCACAF, and probably #3 or #4 in the Americas.
Brazil, Argentina and, the way they've played the last couple years, Chile and Paraguay are the top 4 teams in the Americas. I'd say the US is on par with Uruguay for 5th/6th.
