Gas tank full today?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Dion

There was some shenanigans at the retail level earlier this year.

MONTREAL -- The Competition Bureau has charged 13 people and 11 companies -- in what it called a cartel -- with gas-price fixing in four different Quebec cities.

The companies that were charged are: Les Petroles Therrien Inc., operating under the Petro-T banner, and Distributions Petrolieres Therrien Inc. ($179,000), and Ultramar Inc. ($1,850,000). One individual, Jacques Ouellet, an employee of Ultramar, also pleaded guilty and was fined $50,000.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=583036

Right and as a I said before outside a few retailers here and there the industry has been clean ... at least from the perspective of blaming large oil companies.

I little OT but what many people don't differentiate is that retail gasoline is not similar to exploration and production. Retail is a very cut throat low margin, low profitability business. People don't make money in retail gasoline, and the large oil companies that people associate with the retialing (hard to blame them since their logos are up everywhere) are probably less involved that most would think. In Canada for the most part they set pricing guidelines or pricing mandates, but the facilities are run and sometimes owned by independent businesses.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

yea inventories are low, but the big thing going into the weekend accross the continent is that nobody knew if Ike would be a big deal or not, so in anticipation they curbed demand ... essentially to those who demand it more.

But as I learned today a large retailer had some kind of distribution problem over the weekend where gasoline wasn't getting trucked to retail sites ... not sure if it was a trucking strike or what, but that probably contributed to pricing in Cgy. But I still think a big datapoint is PCAN going down again in Oct.

Well, there were gas stations running out of gas all over the US right after Ike hit.

Obviously there was a problem.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well, there were gas stations running out of gas all over the US right after Ike hit.

Obviously there was a problem.

well If it is that short after Ike then it wasn't because of refineries not producing, probably a short term problem like getting the products from distribution centers to retail sites, or maybe pipelines shut down until after Ike is gone.

The continent wasn't running out of gasoline this past week, if it was gas would be $5 per l or higher.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

well If it is that short after Ike then it wasn't because of refineries not producing, probably a short term problem like getting the products from distribution centers to retail sites, or maybe pipelines shut down until after Ike is gone.

The continent wasn't running out of gasoline this past week, if it was gas would be $5 per l or higher.

Some refineries were shut down for the time being, so there was a supply issue for a while. But, from what I'm reading there wasn't any serious damage, and the price surge was due to a temporary lapse in supply. Nothing serious.

Oil hit $97 today apparently.

EDIT: Make that $94.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

Some refineries were shut down for the time being, so there was a supply issue for a while. But, from what I'm reading there wasn't any serious damage, and the price surge was due to a temporary lapse in supply. Nothing serious.

Oil hit $97 today apparently.

It was just over 94 at the end of the work day in after hours trading.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Right and as a I said before outside a few retailers here and there the industry has been clean ... at least from the perspective of blaming large oil companies.

I little OT but what many people don't differentiate is that retail gasoline is not similar to exploration and production. Retail is a very cut throat low margin, low profitability business. People don't make money in retail gasoline, and the large oil companies that people associate with the retialing (hard to blame them since their logos are up everywhere) are probably less involved that most would think. In Canada for the most part they set pricing guidelines or pricing mandates, but the facilities are run and sometimes owned by independent businesses.

Then why is it we are told this is why gas is so expensive every time oil rises 5 dollars a barrel? Canadians are paying nearly 5 dollars a US gallon when Americans are paying 3.80 for the same product. Even Hawaii is selling gas for the equivalent of 1.10/L....Hawaii has cheaper gas! Sure there are more fuel taxes and currency exchanges for us and all but that is a drastic difference in price. 1.20 per gallon equates to about an extra 20 bucks to fill a 55 litre tank between the two countries.

Something really doesn't ad up.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

Then why is it we are told this is why gas is so expensive every time oil rises 5 dollars a barrel? Canadians are paying nearly 5 dollars a US gallon when Americans are paying 3.80 for the same product. Even Hawaii is selling gas for the equivalent of 1.10/L....Hawaii has cheaper gas! Sure there are more fuel taxes and currency exchanges for us and all but that is a drastic difference in price. 1.20 per gallon equates to about an extra 20 bucks to fill a 55 litre tank between the two countries.

Something really doesn't ad up.

you just added up what you think doesn't add up.

[flamey_mcflame]

It's amazing if you look at an xy chart and the lines between oil price and gas price move in unison when the price of oil goes up. See oil and gas prices from June 2007 to July 2008. Now that oil has dipped to 95 dollars, watch how the lines diverge. It's as if the two lines do not have any relation whatsoever. I know there is a word to describe this strange scientific phenomenon, let me think of it.......Oh right, Oligopoly.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

It's amazing if you look at an xy chart and the lines between oil price and gas price move in unison when the price of oil goes up. See oil and gas prices from June 2007 to July 2008. Now that oil has dipped to 95 dollars, watch how the lines diverge. It's as if the two lines do not have any relation whatsoever. I know there is a word to describe this strange scientific phenomenon, let me think of it.......Oh right, Oligopoly.

which xy chart, let's see it.

[Flames89]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

which xy chart, let's see it.

Think flamey_mcflame is a little off on his conspiracy theory here - else we should have been paying around $1.80 in June.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

you just added up what you think doesn't add up.

No way that 5 to 10 cents on the exchange (which was more like 30 to 40 a few years ago while we still had very low gas) and 15 cents fuel/gst taxes add up to $1.20/US G difference in price. Average US gas is .95-1.00 a litre right now and that does not come close to the 1.40/L with the 20 cent tax amount per litre we pay.

If the most isolated island in the world can sell gas cheaper then us (1.10/L) you cannot deny that we are paying way more then we should be. Somehow now the price of oil is not linked to gas (after that being rammed down our throats the last 5 years for the reasoning behind high pump prices) but as soon as it hits 140 again it sure will be.

[Wookie]

Originally Posted by fotze

I'm even suprised with that graph, looks almost like the opposite has occured. The price should have been much higher at the peak. Its like a cushio was built into it to soften the blow.

Could have to do with the USD tanking.

[habernac]

and now down to 116.9 in places. I have to say this is the quickest I've seen prices fall, maybe they're finally getting the hint?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by habernac

and now down to 116.9 in places. I have to say this is the quickest I've seen prices fall, maybe they're finally getting the hint?

Who's getting the hint? The oil companies got the hint that you don't like $1.40 gasoline?

You think they don't know that consumers don't like high prices ... a concept known to everyone EXCEPT gasoline marketers? I mean why didn't I just sent an email to imperial and let them know that I would prefer cheaper gas.

The price is driven by market fundamentals, same as every other commodity in the unregulated (read communist or otherwise interfered) world.

It's coming down because a) crude keeps falling and b) Ike didn't do as much damage as people thought it would to refineries ... and maybe a few others that are not blatently obvious to everyone.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your note, but if you think it's as simple as someone getting the hint ... well ... it's a big complicated world out there then.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

No way that 5 to 10 cents on the exchange (which was more like 30 to 40 a few years ago while we still had very low gas) and 15 cents fuel/gst taxes add up to $1.20/US G difference in price. Average US gas is .95-1.00 a litre right now and that does not come close to the 1.40/L with the 20 cent tax amount per litre we pay.

If the most isolated island in the world can sell gas cheaper then us (1.10/L) you cannot deny that we are paying way more then we should be. Somehow now the price of oil is not linked to gas (after that being rammed down our throats the last 5 years for the reasoning behind high pump prices) but as soon as it hits 140 again it sure will be.

Perfect we are going to run with your reasoning here ... tell me more about your isolated island. Tell me about their tax structure for gasoline versus Canada.

Further tell me about what refineries serve hawaii, and the cost of bring the crude to market (If you take this on you'll find out how cheap it is to move crude and products around on water vs many pipelines) and also tell me about this markets dependance on the operation of specific refinieries ... which is to say Alberta is completely dependant on all 3 refineries in Edmonton running ... how about Hawaii do they have the same dependance.

Now you clearly know everything so let's just go through all these factors and we'll see if we can't make up the difference in price. Can wait to hear your reply.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by fotze

I'm even suprised with that graph, looks almost like the opposite has occured. The price should have been much higher at the peak. Its like a cushio was built into it to soften the blow.

Yep. Funny how Global didn't pick up that story.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Who's getting the hint? The oil companies got the hint that you don't like $1.40 gasoline?

You think they don't know that consumers don't like high prices ... a concept known to everyone EXCEPT gasoline marketers? I mean why didn't I just sent an email to imperial and let them know that I would prefer cheaper gas.

The price is driven by market fundamentals, same as every other commodity in the unregulated (read communist or otherwise interfered) world.

It's coming down because a) crude keeps falling and b) Ike didn't do as much damage as people thought it would to refineries ... and maybe a few others that are not blatently obvious to everyone.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your note, but if you think it's as simple as someone getting the hint ... well ... it's a big complicated world out there then.

well, it seems to be coming down in price faster than I remember it doing so in the past after events like this. But you seem to be Mr Know-it-all on this so carry on.....

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by habernac

well, it seems to be coming down in price faster than I remember it doing so in the past after events like this. But you seem to be Mr Know-it-all on this so carry on.....

Past events like this? which events? The scenario where a refinery in edmonton is planning a turn around next month and the possibility of a hurricane knocking out a bunch of refining capacity in the Gulf? I don't know it all because I can't recall a time like this.

It went up in a hurry and back down about as fast, because supply is tight and the certainty over the next few weeks was low. Simple as that.

It wasn't that they got the hint from consumers that they are rather disturbed with spending more money for something they are used to getting for less.