The top city in Canada? Calgary

[jammies]

Like people have said, Calgary is not particularly "sprawled" comparatively - if you want sprawl, go to Dallas, LA, or the US Eastern Seaboard, or Toronto - these are places where people can take 2 hours to get to work by car because they have to live in feeder communities far away from the commercial/industrial areas where they work. One significant advantage Calgary has is that it has no natural boundaries, so it can grow in all directions, keeping the distance between any two points in the city smaller than in cities where water or other natural barriers force the city to grow in only one or two directions.

I live in the inner city (west end downtown), and I've seen a big shift lately in the number of high-density units being built - give it 4-5 years, and there will be a big enough population downtown to really kickstart the kind of "culture" scene that figures so largely in people's perception of a "world-class" city. As far as character goes, Calgary simply hasn't been a big city long enough to develop a big-city identity, and the old small-city character has been submerged beneath waves of immigrants from the rest of Canada - which I'm not saying is a bad thing - and it'll take some time before that is overcome.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Bla bla bla... I don't like the urban sprawl or the direction (literally) this city is going any more than anyone else does, but the whole "downtown people are cultured, people in the suburbs are morons with nothing to do" thing really peels my banana.

No one has said that. That is your own perception. People who choose to live downtown just are more likely to have a difference of opinion. You can spin that however you want.

I, personally, just find people who live in the suburbs to deny the urban sprawl problem more than those living in the inner city. It's a problem all Calgarians should be concerned about, because it's a problem that directly caused by, and can be solved by citizens.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/oncampus/week...an-sprawl.html

[OracleOfCalgary]

"Radiant City" engages in pure revisionism... Those of us who are old enough to remember prior to the '80s know why the flight to the suburbs occurred. For most of its history, New York has actually had a reputation as being a pretty miserable place to live. It is well known that there are significant major negative sociological, psychological and health consequences to living in a densely populated area. And, it takes a hell of a lot of technology to keep these cities from completely imploding. A few hours of blackout, a heat wave, some inclement weather, or a minor outbreak (SARS) and these cities are thrown into total chaos. I shudder to think what a flu pandemic could do.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The 'cookie cutter houses 5 feet away from each other' comments don't make any sense. People in a cookie cutter house are still 4'8" further away from the neighbours than a person in a cookie cutter apartment or condo is, so you can't really hack on how close they are together.

Bla bla bla... I don't like the urban sprawl or the direction (literally) this city is going any more than anyone else does, but the whole "downtown people are cultured, people in the suburbs are morons with nothing to do" thing really peels my banana.

I don't think anyone's saying that people downtown are more 'cultured', btu aside from financial reasons if you're starting up a family and are on a tight budget with no options, why would anyone want to live in an unoriginal structure that's no different from anybody else's house and have to spend too much time on the road commuting everywhere?

For as much time as people spend at home these days, you'd think you'd want your place of residence to be a creative outlet that you can express yourself through architecturally. The only thing that would 'peel my banana' is knowing that the only major difference between my neighbor on my left and on my right is my time that I spend between 9 and 5... and even then that might not even be true.

Atleast there's heaps more diversity and access to all nodes this city has to offer if you're in a central location. And, you really don't have to own a vehicle if this is where you live, which is a plus for the environment. You can just take public transit, since this is where most of the transit routes eminate from.

Rouge, I'm not saying you're wrong... but people who live in the suburbs ARE 'morons who have nothing to do'... that's how the emo movement unfortunately started.

[corporatejay]

And besides, contrary to the popular myth propagated by the urban sophisticates, the urban sophisticates are not spending every night eating at a Somalian restaurant, sipping espresso at some post-feminist poetry reading or listening to an obscure old blues man bringing the Mississippi Delta into some beltline hole-in-the-wall.

This made me laugh so hard i started crying.

I currently live downtown Etown, I bought a house in a calgary suburb. Last time I checked I am equally as cool as I was in september.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

what i find funny..is people from Vancouver tend to love Calgary nightlife and vice versa...entertainment wise, vancouver has held and edge but i think the gap is closing as calgary population continues to explode....

It's probably attributable just to the fact that when people from one city are in the other it's mostly for a short period of time when they're free to do more partying than if they were home doing the daily grind in their own city. I think Calgary still has a long way to go to catch Vancouver in the nightlife department though, which is largely just because of Vancouver a population large enough to support a greater variety of venues.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Muta

I don't think anyone's saying that people downtown are more 'cultured', btu aside from financial reasons if you're starting up a family and are on a tight budget with no options, why would anyone want to live in an unoriginal structure that's no different from anybody else's house and have to spend too much time on the road commuting everywhere?

For as much time as people spend at home these days, you'd think you'd want your place of residence to be a creative outlet that you can express yourself through architecturally. The only thing that would 'peel my banana' is knowing that the only major difference between my neighbor on my left and on my right is my time that I spend between 9 and 5... and even then that might not even be true.

the commute angle is fair, but I dunno I still see some uninteresting/similar older or more central locations and some semi-interesting newer 'suburban'areas. and financial reasons are the major reason for many people. sure I'd love to raise a family in an 'interesting' area like Elbow Park, but its not happening for me anyways

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Muta

For as much time as people spend at home these days, you'd think you'd want your place of residence to be a creative outlet that you can express yourself through architecturally.

Well as nice as that sounds, very few people have the time, will, energy, talent or even desire to "express themselves architecturally".

Originally Posted by Muta

The only thing that would 'peel my banana' is knowing that the only major difference between my neighbor on my left and on my right is my time that I spend between 9 and 5... and even then that might not even be true.

Okay so I guess that means everyone in the suburbs is the same, because they live in similar houses? Does that mean everyone in some 200 unit condo development is unique, because they all live in the exact same condo?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by looooob

and financial reasons are the major reason for many people. sure I'd love to raise a family in an 'interesting' area like Elbow Park, but its not happening for me anyways

Honest question:

What is the difference in annual mortgage payments between the average home in urban Calgary and the suburbs? Now subtract from that difference the annual total cost of ownership of having two vehicles (which are pretty much a necessity for a family living in the suburbs).

My wife and I own a downtown condo for which we pay about $25,000/year in mortgage payments and condo fees. If we had wanted to move to the suburbs, maybe we could have bought a house for about $18,000/year.

But then we'd have to buy two vehicles, and when you add up car payments, insurance, gas, parking, and repairs/maintenance, those cars would probably cost us $15-20K per year. So by my math, we're coming out ahead financially by choosing to live downtown within walking distance of our places of work and everything else we need.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well as nice as that sounds, very few people have the time, will, energy, talent or even desire to "express themselves architecturally".

And that's the problem right there, Calgarians are too busy to care about artistic vehicles such as architecture. It's all work, work work, a little play, and spend your paycheques in between. No wonder this city has a dismal arts scene; there are too many people ignoring it and not enough promoting it. In terms of architecture, there are too many people willing to accept cookie-cutter houses made of pink stucco as a place to sleep in, as opposed to making it an expression of your lifestyle. People spend too much thinking about and doing operational, daily activities, and are left with little time for artistic flourishment. It's a sad state of affairs.

And isn't it ironic that we have to thank the government and and other corporations for promoting arts in this city, as opposed to the citizens?
The National Portrait Gallery is a prime example of this.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...212.wcalgary12

[Muta]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Okay so I guess that means everyone in the suburbs is the same, because they live in similar houses? Does that mean everyone in some 200 unit condo development is unique, because they all live in the exact same condo?

Well, I think you're being overdramatic here, but I digress. People sure like to dissect things word-for-word on message boards.

But, I do strongly believe that unless you're in the suburbs for monetary reasons, there's little reason why one would choose to live that far out.

Inner City: Aside from the eased commuting headache, there's simply more cultural venues to visit, more entertainment outlets central to the city core, more restaurants, more diversity - especially with people! So many more interesting types live central to things, or so I've found... and that doesn't just include Calgary, it also includes other cities that I've been to, including living in Auckland. And no, entertainment outlets are not just big-ass mainstream movie theatres, which seem to be a signature development of the suburbs these days. There's small venues and undiscovered places that need to be explored which are, safer to say, usually downtown. But alas, I think those points have already been made fairly evident in this thread.

[MissTeeks]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

And that's the problem right there, Calgarians are too busy to care about artistic vehicles such as architecture. It's all work, work work, a little play, and spend your paycheques in between. No wonder this city has a dismal arts scene; there are too many people ignoring it and not enough promoting it. In terms of architecture, there are too many people willing to accept cookie-cutter houses made of pink stucco as a place to sleep in, as opposed to making it an expression of your lifestyle. People spend too much thinking about and doing operational, daily activities, and are left with little time for artistic flourishment. It's a sad state of affairs.

Isn't that what the inside of your house is for? How many people spend the bulk of their time making the outside of their house an expression of their lifestyle? I would think most people spend it on the inside of their houses, where they spend most of their time, not outside.

[mykalberta]

The reason for the Sprawl is becuase Calgary doesnt want to lose the dollars that would otherwise go to the leach communites of Airdrie, Cochrane etc. Families will always want houses with yards for their kids. You cant stop that. And they will find that house, whether that be in Calgary or Airdrie. Vancouver and Calgary are not even on the same plane to be considered.

Vancouver's density is a result of need and not want, they build up not because people want to live in 900sq foot concrete prisons, but because they would rather live near the ocean, and the best way maximize your investment dollar is by selling 8*50*1mil condos rather than single family homes. The other reality is that its a lot more expensive in Vancouer to own a home than it is in Calgary. When I was was flown out there for a job interview I simply couldnt afford to live anywhere close to the provincial building where I would work in downtown Vancouver.

Me and my dad did a test of what I could afford (approx 1800K max/month in rent) and I would have to transfer to multiple different trains to get to work every day. Because of that i took a slightly lower paying job in Calgary simply because I could live in Sunnyside and walk to work and only pay 800/month in rent.

I myself live a nice (not so nice in the winter) 20 minute walk to downtown. I do that not because I enjoy paying over a 1/4 of a mil for a 900 Sq foot condo, but because I dont like driving durring rush hour. Would I prefer a house, of course but not as much as I like walking to work and not having to spend alot of my time in traffic.

Also, I dont kow what people are saying about Calgary's crap public transit. Calgary has one of the most efficient LRT's in all of North America. Could they have more lines, sure but those lines cost money and when police and fire station costs balloon over 50% of proposed, how expensive do you think LRT lines would be.

Also as for culture, of course Vancouver has more. Vancouver is one of the top 3 cultural hubs in Canada, its also a major port of entry for immigrants and has the best airport in Canada. Of course that culture also includes high as a kite ferry workers, safe injection sites, and the wonders of the downtown Vancouver.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Isn't that what the inside of your house is for? How many people spend the bulk of their time making the outside of their house an expression of their lifestyle? I would think most people spend it on the inside of their houses, where they spend most of their time, not outside.

You're missing the point. The point I'm making is that areas of art, such as architecture, are being overlooked for convinience and price. This is the greivance that many architects and developers have with clients in this city, and thus, is reflective of the city-wide sentiment towards Calgary's artistic side.

You can decorate your house however you want.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, I think you're being overdramatic here, but I digress. People sure like to dissect things word-for-word on message boards.

But, I do strongly believe that unless you're in the suburbs for monetary reasons, there's little reason why one would choose to live that far out.

Inner City: Aside from the eased commuting headache, there's simply more cultural venues to visit, more entertainment outlets central to the city core, more restaurants, more diversity - especially with people! So many more interesting types live central to things, or so I've found... and that doesn't just include Calgary, it also includes other cities that I've been to, including living in Auckland. And no, entertainment outlets are not just big-ass mainstream movie theatres, which seem to be a signature development of the suburbs these days. There's small venues and undiscovered places that need to be explored which are, safer to say, usually downtown. But alas, I think those points have already been made fairly evident in this thread.

Well monetary reasons would prob be the big one...and the truth is..most people in the burbs are families and nothing you have listed in your pros about the innercity is on any families mind when they chose were to live. The inner city is for only for a select group of people, usually under 35 , exependable cash, possibly unmarried, and def no kids...which describes me and have lived in the inner city for 7 years now...and i love it...i coudnt imagine living in the burbs at this point ....but if i was to start a Family....i would like to have a home over a condo...just my preference, in fact apparently alot of peoples..whether that is out in Cranston or Valley Ridge i dont know...hopefully its in Elbow Park or Mt Royal...but nothing sells there for less than 1.5 million...

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Well monetary reasons would prob be the big one...and the truth is..most people in the burbs are families and nothing you have listed in your pros about the innercity is on any families mind when they chose were to live. The inner city is for only for a select group of people, usually under 35 , exependable cash, possibly unmarried, and def no kids...which describes me and have lived in the inner city for 7 years now...and i love it...i coudnt imagine living in the burbs at this point ....but if i was to start a Family....i would like to have a home over a condo...just my preference, in fact apparently alot of peoples..whether that is out in Cranston or Valley Ridge i dont know...hopefully its in Elbow Park or Mt Royal...but nothing sells there for less than 1.5 million...

Just as a point, there's a difference between downtown and 'inner city'. All surrounding neighbourhoods in the central area are 'inner city', and are just as good, if not better places to raise kids if you want to live in a house. You don't need to live 30km out of downtown to raise a family, not by a longshot.

Now, this is where a good point I have already iterated comes in. If the power centers, such as Crowfoot Crossing, were developed the way they were intended, then this whole discussion of suburb versus inner city living would be null. These power centers have failed miserably, and are contributing to this great debate.

[burn_baby_burn]

Caring about architecture is for the wealthy. Most people are more interested about the inside of their home than the outside. You can make your home in the suburbs unique with landscaping. As long as it is a comfortable place to live for you and your family. Thats what most people find important. People who are really into the design and look of their home either have too much time on their hands. Or money is no object. Maybe both. Nothing wrong with liking architecture as a hobby. The reality is most people can't afford to build a unique house.

[MarchHare]

Well monetary reasons would prob be the big one

See my above post. Is it more affordable for a family to:

A) Own a home in the inner city and not own a vehicle
B) Own a home in the suburbs and require two vehicles

I can see the argument that families want yards for the kids to play in (although honestly, the tiny little lots in suburban Calgary hardly make decent play areas), but I don't necessarily think it's more affordable to live in the suburbs, since transportation issues become a huge concern. Inner-city living can mean vehicle-free living.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

See my above post. Is it more affordable for a family to:

A) Own a home in the inner city and not own a vehicle
B) Own a home in the suburbs and require two vehicles

I can see the argument that families want yards for the kids to play in (although honestly, the tiny little lots in suburban Calgary hardly make decent play areas), but I don't necessarily think it's more affordable to live in the suburbs, since transportation issues become a huge concern. Inner-city living can mean vehicle-free living.

A couple with kids cannot live without a vechicle...that just isnt possible for a million reasons i don't need to point out...

[MarchHare]

A couple with kids cannot live without a vechicle...that just isnt possible for a million reasons i don't need to point out...

I patiently await someone to prove you wrong by posting in this thread saying they have children and don't own a vehicle. I can absolutely guarantee you that such people exist.