Underpaid careers

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

In what capacity do you deal with city workers? I am one. I'm not saying we're all hard workers, but the slam against city workers tends to get old when everyone you know mentions it to you.

I deal with some of the guys in the parks department. It's not uncommon for them to come to the shop to pick up a 50 cent item, sit around and have a couple cups of coffee, drive back across the city just in time for them to make it back for lunch, come back after lunch for another 50 cent item and then back to the repair.

Is it just coincidence that Montreal had to put tracking devices on their trucks to find out where their employees are when they were seen spending hours on end in coffee shops?

To be fair to you though, when I refer to city employees I'm not talking about those that you would find in upper management positions and around city hall

[V]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

Another profession is IT. One of the main reasons here is that IT gets no respect. Almost every business needs them and yet they give them no respect as a profession. People still think that they are a bunch of geeks that have nothing better to do all day but work on a computer.
I am lucky now, I finally got into a job where I am respected for what I do. They realize that if we were not here they would be trying to figure out well pressures and transit rates with a pencil, paper and calculator. But before I started where I am IT sucked, when the network and computers were up and running fine (which was about 98% of the time) we were told that we were useless cause everything w as fine, but when something went down we were told that we were useless because things were ALWAYS broken.

Pfft, you just fill a hole that needs filling. What kind of respect do you want? You don't do anything special. Should I have people bowing down to me because if I didn't do my job there would be countless Diagnostic Imaging rooms around the city without power? That's pretty important stuff.

I've been with three different companies now, and it's been the same with all three. The IT guy gets a ticket, he performs the work, and he leaves. Job well done. I don't see why he needs a pat on the back.

Everyone thinks they're underappreciated and underpaid, when the fact is they're usually neither.

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by V

Pfft, you just fill a hole that needs filling. What kind of respect do you want? You don't do anything special. Should I have people bowing down to me because if I didn't do my job there would be countless Diagnostic Imaging rooms around the city without power? That's pretty important stuff.

I've been with three different companies now, and it's been the same with all three. The IT guy gets a ticket, he performs the work, and he leaves. Job well done. I don't see why he needs a pat on the back.

Everyone thinks they're underappreciated and underpaid, when the fact is they're usually neither.

See this is what I mean, I am not saying that IT is more important then other jobs out there. There are many other jobs that are more important then what we do but I would not do them, my choice.
But what I am saying is what you discribed in your they get a ticket, do a job and leave. If your computer is down and not working at all who gets the crap for that.....If it is not fixed in 15 minutes while you go for coffee who gets the crap.....if there is a specific program that is not working that you decided to install yourself who gets the crap....
I get this all the time, people who think that they know computers cause they have one at home and can surf the internet they know all there is to know and they install crap and modify stuff then when it breaks it is not there fault.
I am also not saying that I am underpaid cause as I said before I got lucky and found a compnay that knows what we do. I am paid well, not overpaid but well enough. But when people break into the world of IT they can expect pay that is relative to working at McD's and such.

[socalwingfan]

Originally Posted by jar_e

To put things in perspective for other emergency workers...

EMT's (one year of schooling, plus EMR) start at $21.96 (and can work there way up to a cap of $26.70)....so for a forty two hour work week (which is average for them) their annual wage ranges from $47,000 - $59,000 gross.

Paramedics (Two years of schooling plus EMT, plus EMR) start at $23.74 (up to $30.26)...$51,000 - $67,000 annually.

Firefighters, like CPS work on a five year class...

edit: stupid formatting....here's a link...first year firefighters start at a whopping $19.28 per hour and will roughly make $42,000 annually.

Crap my wife worked as an EMT and made 1/2 of what EMTs there make!! She moved into dispatch and actually got a raise over her EMT salary. EMTs here make close to minimum wage and are dealing with crazy **** everyday - it's freakin ridiculous.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by V

I've been with three different companies now, and it's been the same with all three. The IT guy gets a ticket, he performs the work, and he leaves. Job well done. I don't see why he needs a pat on the back.

It's because of the things that you don't see the IT guy doing that your computer and network works as well as it does. You have already indicated that in your job you do things behind the scenes that may not be noticed.

From an IT standpoint myself; I didn't see Superflyer's post as saying he wanted to be recognized for his day to day job. He was saying that what many of us see and hear as people believing that we are simply an unnessesary expense. It's one thing to be oblivious to people behind the scenes who make stuff work. It's another to openly say that those people don't do anything because you don't see them do something.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

See this is what I mean, I am not saying that IT is more important then other jobs out there. There are many other jobs that are more important then what we do but I would not do them, my choice.
But what I am saying is what you discribed in your they get a ticket, do a job and leave. If your computer is down and not working at all who gets the crap for that.....If it is not fixed in 15 minutes while you go for coffee who gets the crap.....if there is a specific program that is not working that you decided to install yourself who gets the crap....
I get this all the time, people who think that they know computers cause they have one at home and can surf the internet they know all there is to know and they install crap and modify stuff then when it breaks it is not there fault.
I am also not saying that I am underpaid cause as I said before I got lucky and found a compnay that knows what we do. I am paid well, not overpaid but well enough. But when people break into the world of IT they can expect pay that is relative to working at McD's and such.

To be blunt, one of the primary reasons why IT folks are treated this way is because of how they treat their customers. Inability to explain the problem, talking down to them, arrogance and what not.

You are dealing with people when they are likely stressed and suddenly without their primary work tool. No wonder they are stressed and perhaps a little snippy. Good people skills can disarm a situation but quite often the IT professional will say the wrong thing and instead escalate it.

Not saying, you or all IT guys are like that, but there are some out there that certainly qualify.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by ken0042

It's because of the things that you don't see the IT guy doing that your computer and network works as well as it does. You have already indicated that in your job you do things behind the scenes that may not be noticed.

From an IT standpoint myself; I didn't see Superflyer's post as saying he wanted to be recognized for his day to day job. He was saying that what many of us see and hear as people believing that we are simply an unnessesary expense. It's one thing to be oblivious to people behind the scenes who make stuff work. It's another to openly say that those people don't do anything because you don't see them do something.

You are right. As far as I am concerned, my IT guy is worth his weight in gold and I tell him as much straight to his face. And I will pay him more than he asks when I know he has made a special effort to come promptly even though I know everyone tells him it is an emergency and asks him to come come right away. As far as I am concerned, if your system is down, so are you and your company down and idle time does not pay much!!!

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by V

Everyone thinks they're underappreciated and underpaid, when the fact is they're usually neither.

This is most truthful statement in the entire thread. Pretty much everybody thinks they're more valuable than they really are. Except for EMTs and paramedics ... it's criminal how little they get paid for what they do. I'm not an EMT or paramedic, but I know a few. There is no way I would go through the stress and crap they have to for so little money. And the medics in Alberta are among the highest paid in Canada! It's even worse in other provinces.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

To be blunt, one of the primary reasons why IT folks are treated this way is because of how they treat their customers. Inability to explain the problem, talking down to them, arrogance and what not.

You are dealing with people when they are likely stressed and suddenly without their primary work tool. No wonder they are stressed and perhaps a little snippy. Good people skills can disarm a situation but quite often the IT professional will say the wrong thing and instead escalate it.

Not saying, you or all IT guys are like that, but there are some out there that certainly qualify.

This can be said about any profession. Have you been to any doctor lately, a specialist who is run off his feet? Try seeing how much time they have for all of your queries and how many people skills they have. They can be very cold and aloof.

You dont like your current guy, get another, shop around. And dont forget, just because you are stressed does not give you the right to be snippy. You need good people skills as well. We are all stressed, not just you, dont take it out on the IT guy if you snip at him and he is not as cordial with you as you would like.

[V]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

But what I am saying is what you discribed in your they get a ticket, do a job and leave. If your computer is down and not working at all who gets the crap for that

Nobody. Computers break down, that's why we have IT. Why does someone need to get crap?

.....If it is not fixed in 15 minutes while you go for coffee who gets the crap

Depends what the problem was. If the job should've taken 30 minutes, I would've expected the IT guy to tell me so when he saw the problem. If he said it would take 5 minutes and it took 2 hours? I'd be annoyed, and rightly so, I think.

.....if there is a specific program that is not working that you decided to install yourself who gets the crap....

The employee. At least at two of the companies I've worked for. No alien software allowed.

I get this all the time, people who think that they know computers cause they have one at home and can surf the internet they know all there is to know and they install crap and modify stuff then when it breaks it is not there fault.

If you think you are the only person that experiences this you're off your rocker. Everyone thinks they can do everyone else's jobs. I get it all the time, and I know many other people who complain about the same thing. This is not special to IT.

[V]

Originally Posted by ken0042

It's another to openly say that those people don't do anything because you don't see them do something.

I don't know if you mean that I said this, or the average joe says this, because I never said any such thing. Just that the average worker gets the special recognition and reward of a paycheque every two weeks for performing at work. Nothing else should be expected.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by V

I don't know if you mean that I said this, or the average joe says this, because I never said any such thing. Just that the average worker gets the special recognition and reward of a paycheque every two weeks for performing at work. Nothing else should be expected.

No, I wasn't trying to imply that you had said it. I was just giving an example of what was meant by people not appreciating the IT staff. My company is big enough that not everybody knows everyone, so I sometimes get onto an elevator where people are slagging the IT department.

As for the IT people wanting more than just a paycheque, let me give you an example. You as the end user do something you are not supposed to do; let's say plug your iPod into a work PC. Your computer crashes and you have a report that is due. The PC will not restart. This type of service level within your company is an 8 hour turn around. Your IT not only gets you back up and running within 90 minutes, but also recovers the data that is on your hard drive; even though company policy states that no corperate info should be stored on your hard drive.

To me, that deserves a thank you.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by redforever

This can be said about any profession. Have you been to any doctor lately, a specialist who is run off his feet? Try seeing how much time they have for all of your queries and how many people skills they have. They can be very cold and aloof.

You dont like your current guy, get another, shop around. And dont forget, just because you are stressed does not give you the right to be snippy. You need good people skills as well. We are all stressed, not just you, dont take it out on the IT guy if you snip at him and he is not as cordial with you as you would like.

Did I say I wasn't happy with my guy? Or that I was snippy?

Nope. I did not. I like my IT guy, and don't get snippy when my computer doesn't work. I don't really get snippy at work at all.

So no need to get defensive.

But IT professionals need to look at the folks they serve as their "clients" and treat them as such. If they do, perhaps their services will be more valued.

Again, some do this, but some do not.

[brownie]

Millwrights are underpaid IMO

[Superflyer]

Boy look at the can of worms that I opened.
I must say that not all people are snippy and most times it can be tied to their personality, but sometimes a really nice person can turn on you as well if it crashes in an inoportune (sp) time. And since I am an IT guy and the computer crashed then it falls on me. Then again other people do not care, they like it to be down then they have an excuse to not do work.

Also why should I look at a co-worker as my client? They do not look at me like a client, they are a co-worker. In that mentalitly IT would be pretty low in the company as we can service everyone that has a computer and in most companies that is most if not all. And if they are our clients then we should hold everyone above us because the client is always right.

[V]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

Also why should I look at a co-worker as my client? They do not look at me like a client, they are a co-worker. In that mentalitly IT would be pretty low in the company as we can service everyone that has a computer and in most companies that is most if not all. And if they are our clients then we should hold everyone above us because the client is always right.

In the two big companies I've worked at, the IT Department has to view the users as clients. It's the same as the HR group. I think the main reason for this is because you can't bill an external company for the work that you do, while pretty much every other profit centre sends out invoices to external companies, in other words, their clients.

I don't know if this is exactly how higher level management views the relationship between IT and the workers, but that's always the impression I've gotten.

[V]

Originally Posted by ken0042

No, I wasn't trying to imply that you had said it. I was just giving an example of what was meant by people not appreciating the IT staff. My company is big enough that not everybody knows everyone, so I sometimes get onto an elevator where people are slagging the IT department.

Well, maybe it's because my ears perk up when I hear certain things, but I hear far, far more engineer slagging than IT slagging. I hear it every day.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

But IT professionals need to look at the folks they serve as their "clients" and treat them as such. If they do, perhaps their services will be more valued.

Again, some do this, but some do not.

I see what you are saying, but unfortunately, this isn't true for majority of the IT pros I work with.

I won't go into detail about my background, but I have worked for 2 of the most well known oil and gas software companies in Calgary. I have the fortune to have worked with both sides, the client and the IT. I have worked with probably 20 to 30 outsourced IT companies, and I am confident that I have probably met more than 100 IT professionals and have worked closely with majority of them. It is a thankless job. Most of the folks I work with are professional, but their professionalism goes unnoticed. I know this because the clients are never ceasing in their complaints, even when there's really nothing much to complain about...or when it is clearly not the IT's fault (such as software bugs).

That is why I will never work in the outsource IT field.

[V]

Why? Just because we're better than everyone else, and they're all jealous??

[kevman]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

i think for the most part people are paid exactly what they should.

if you are underpaid, then surely someone out there will pay you more, so go and get that job. otherwise, clearly you arent underpaid.

no such thing as overpaid.

I have to agree, you are paid what you are worth to the company. If you are in fact "underpaid" that is your own fault for not doing something about the situation.

A buddy of mine was actually complaining about being underpaid last night. His boss was just fired and the guy working the opposing shift has been gone for a month or so. He's in a position that he's the only one that can do his job with no one above and below him. As a result he's had to work alot of extra overtime with very little chance of getting time off and is still earning the same amount. I told him he's being an idiot! It's up to him to make sure that he is earning what he feels he is worth especially in a situation where he has so much leverage.

Maybe I should qualify my statement and say that no one is underpaid in the private sector. The same argument could be made for the public sector but like all things public it just takes longer for them to adjust to the current economy.

I should also add that being "underpaid" or "overpaid" has more to do then numbers on a paycheque.