The Fight Against Scientology

[Frank the Tank]

Ah the never ending Cheese dogpile! Haha!

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by evman150

The lower parts of society need religion to live their lives.

Those in the upper echelon of society are (necessarily) the most intelligent, the most successful, the happiest, the most free to live their lives. These people do not need religion to give their lives meaning like the dregs of society do.

I really have nothing against those individuals who believe in God if it gives their lives some sort of (false) meaning. Just don't try and tell me these people are of the same worthiness to society as the rest of us.

How benevolent of you to let the religious people live.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cheese

LOL...we are talking about the church here...theists LOVE to haul out comparisons to anything else they think will make them look better. It doesnt work and certainly doesnt answer any of the questions I pose.

Says the guy who claims God is a lie and ignores every single call to prove it.

You are right, we are talking about the chruch, and how religion is supposedly the cause of all misery on earth. I have provided you with numerous examples of violence, evil and the lust for power where religion had no bearing on the actions of people.

Now, you can either continue to avoid the question, and remain happily cocooned in your ignorance, or you can try and meet the challenge head on. Choice is yours.

As to the comment about children praying to goD...Fine Ill retract that and say children praying to Jesus? Go ahead and prove that one.

What is it exactly that you wish me to try and "prove"? That children pray to Jesus?

Prove to me God does not exist.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Exactly...hate is learned from a very young age...if you scroll back youll find I said the exact same thing. A baby is NOT born into the world full of hate or anger. When we teach children lies it teaches them that lieing is ok....when we teach children that an all good goD can murder all of his creations what does that teach a child?

Hate is an instinct. You learn at what to direct it at perhaps, but it is most definitely an instinct of our reptilian brain.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by White Doors

How benevolent of you to let the religious people live.

He said 'need religion to live their lives', he wasn't implying that he was letting religious people live by his own will. Read it again, quit being a smart-arse.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

He said 'need religion to live their lives', he wasn't implying that he was letting religious people live by his own will. Read it again, quit being a smart-arse.

He was questioning the worth of people who a) have a lower IQ and b) people who are religious.
Pompous to say the least.
Thanks for your trolling though.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by White Doors

He was questioning the worth of people who a) have a lower IQ and b) people who are religious.
Pompous to say the least.
Thanks for your trolling though.

Sure, but you didn't adress that, you said:

Originally Posted by White Doors

How benevolent of you to let the religious people live.

When he wasn't claiming that he was 'allowing' religious people to live at all. You twisted his words brutally. Oooo, now your girlfriend Red Mile Style is going to come and yell at me!

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Sure, but you didn't adress that, you said:


When he wasn't claiming that he was 'allowing' religious people to live at all. You twisted his words brutally. Oooo, now your girlfriend Red Mile Style is going to come and yell at me!

I was pointing out the irony of his statement. My apologies for you not having picked that up.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by White Doors

I was pointing out the irony of his statement. My apologies for you not having picked that up.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony

I can't pick up what isn't there.

[White Doors]

oh, it's there.

[skins]

Originally Posted by Cheese

ok here you go smarty...prove "the son of God existed". If you want to talk about ghosts feel free.

you're obviously very passionate about this topic, but throwing in snide comments like "ok here you go smarty" doesn't provoke good debate. anyway, I'm going to address what I think about the blue part later today when I have more time.

Originally Posted by Cheese

BTW...Atheists dont need to prove there is no God...we dont believe in it. It is the Christian that believes in and created this entity...hence it is their position to prove.

that's not true. If you want to firmly take a stand and say "There is no God", then you should have something to back that up. what makes you 100% that there is no higher power, and how can you be so sure if there is no concrete proof of that. you're basically saying that you don't have to prove what you're saying is true.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by skins

you're obviously very passionate about this topic, but throwing in snide comments like "ok here you go smarty" doesn't provoke good debate. anyway, I'm going to address what I think about the blue part later today when I have more time.



that's not true. If you want to firmly take a stand and say "There is no God", then you should have something to back that up. what makes you 100% that there is no higher power, and how can you be so sure if there is no concrete proof of that. you're basically saying that you don't have to prove what you're saying is true.

Neither side should have to prove god exists or doesn't exist. Its a stupid arguement as it is impossible to prove either way. I firmly believe there is no god/devil/heaven/hell/ghosts, whatever. Its my belief, I don't have to PROVE it to believe it, I have my own, personal reasons.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by skins

you're obviously very passionate about this topic, but throwing in snide comments like "ok here you go smarty" doesn't provoke good debate. anyway, I'm going to address what I think about the blue part later today when I have more time.



that's not true. If you want to firmly take a stand and say "There is no God", then you should have something to back that up. what makes you 100% that there is no higher power, and how can you be so sure if there is no concrete proof of that. you're basically saying that you don't have to prove what you're saying is true.

See Franks comments above...I concur, and eagerly await your comments proving the existence on the son of goD. My comment(s) are snide because no matter how much I myself, or others provide links/info/proof, theists simply ignore it and suggest that I or others cant disprove goD exists. Well you cant prove he does exist, and YOU are the one suggesting he does, so lets move on.
Bring on your son of goD proof...I need a good laugh. By the way...the Bible is not proof just in case you want to haul that one out of the closet.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Hate is an instinct. You learn at what to direct it at perhaps, but it is most definitely an instinct of our reptilian brain.

Our Reptilian brain? Last time I checked, we were mammals but maybe we are evolved from silurians or something. Or maybe we are all part of COBRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! deep inside.



But I agree, hate and agression are evolutionary instinctual behaviors however natural hostility can of course be raised significantly by the enviroment and nature of how one is brought up and nurtured.

Personally, I think that one of the reasons hardline fundamentalist religious groups are associated with so much violence and intolerance is that the very religions they practice dictate their lives in an authoritarian manner with dragoconian rules that are against every human instinct which is aimed to assimilate them into a souless conformity and people annihilate their humanity without realizing it and it ends up causing a lot of frustration and angst.

I just read a great article from Tal Bachman - the B.C. guy who wrote and sang "She's So High (above me)" the son of Randy Bachman (Bachman Turner Overdrive) about getting out of mormonism and how he had previously known something was wrong with his life but he couldn't figure out what it was and it just resulted in anger and frustration taken out on various things.

If you look up testimonies of ex-muslims from rural areas of more hardline regions of the world you'll find a lot of really brutal hardships and utter attrocities and crimes (teenage girls buried up to their chest and then stoned to death by crowds of men)...people beaten and hanged senselessly, etc... along with injustice and government corruption - but the government and religious leaders will point the finger at America, the west, or Isreal and claim that they are somehow the real cause of suffering in those regions and direct blame away from themselves. Many people in Iran, Pakistan, etc. are taught from a young age not to trust and even to hate Christians and Jews as the real reason for their suffering when many of the causes are internal.

- As for scientology, that relgion/scam is really some kind of psychotic brainwashing that gets you addicted to auditing and costly indoctrination. If you watch some of the videos of people going to scientology meetings with videocameras and recording their interactions with people you'll see just how odd most scientologists are/have become.

Jenna Elfman (Dharma and Greg) encountered a guy on the street with one of those joke T-shirts with Saturday Night Fever Travolta and Tom Cruise on the back with the text "Scientology is gay" and Elfman totally lost it on the guy and kept badgering him and chasing him with screaming about "WHAT CRIMES HAVE YOU
COMMITTED!!! HAVE YOU RAPED A BABY!!!?"

http://www.tmz.com/2006/06/13/when-elfmans-explode/

The video of the guy walking in on a scientology street party was much the same as he was hounded by these three guys who kept demanding to know what crimes he had commited, etc.

http://xenutv.bogie.nl/originals/4th.htm

They really teach this junk in scientology and brainwash people into it because L. Ron Hubbard wrote that any enemy of Scienlogy was actually a deluded person who had many "unconfessed crimes" that were disturbing his mind, etc...and that Scientology had the right to do anything to cause harm, violence, or economic destruction of those people regardless of laws (or disturbing courts and justice to their own means).

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cheese

See Franks comments above...I concur, and eagerly await your comments proving the existence on the son of goD. My comment(s) are snide because no matter how much I myself, or others provide links/info/proof, theists simply ignore it and suggest that I or others cant disprove goD exists. Well you cant prove he does exist, and YOU are the one suggesting he does, so lets move on.

You are suggesting that god does not exist, yet you cant prove it. So now you want to chastise others for failing to do what you yourself has failed to do, then move on?

What utter hypocricy.

The irony is that your argument is 100% faith based, and you dont realize it. As has been mentioned, you can no more prove that God does not exist than a religious believer can prove he does. People believe what they believe. Only the truely arrogant and closed minded chastise others for their beliefs.

I gather your lack of a response to my last comment is a confirmation that you prefer to remain in your cocoon of ignorance?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

You are suggesting that god does not exist, yet you cant prove it. So now you want to chastise others for failing to do what you yourself has failed to do, then move on?

What utter hypocricy.

The irony is that your argument is 100% faith based, and you dont realize it. As has been mentioned, you can no more prove that God does not exist than a religious believer can prove he does. People believe what they believe. Only the truely arrogant and closed minded chastise others for their beliefs.

I gather your lack of a response to my last comment is a confirmation that you prefer to remain in your cocoon of ignorance?

Hey Snake...get a grip ok...I already told you I cant prove it...and in my haste to post and actually get work done I should have mentioned son of goD. So pull it together...you cant prove god exists...I cant prove it...noone can prove it...so move on to your favorite son of god...for christs sake. larf.
Considering you are chastising me does this make you arrogant? Or does it simply make you close minded?
I think close minded...because you obviously cant read either.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Hey Snake...get a grip ok...I already told you I cant prove it...and in my haste to post and actually get work done I should have mentioned son of goD. So pull it together...you cant prove god exists...I cant prove it...noone can prove it...so move on to your favorite son of god...for christs sake. larf.
Considering you are chastising me does this make you arrogant? Or does it simply make you close minded?
I think close minded...because you obviously cant read either.

I have never chastised you for your beliefs. I accept that you believe there is no god. My problem is with your unwillingness to accept that others believe there is. I only press you to prove that God does not exist to highlight that you no more have a monopoly on the truth than I do.

You can talk about how you have lots of religious friends, but the one thing that comes through very clearly in these arguments is that you are highly intolerant of the beliefs of others.

Intolerance is one of mans greatest failings, which as a further irony, only shows that you yourself serve as an argument against your own beliefs in the inherent goodness in mankind.

As far as the existence of Jesus goes, don't confuse me for being a Christian. I believe in the existence of god(s), but I do not subscribe to any of man's religions. I see no reason to doubt that he existed, however I do not subscribe to the belief that he was the son of a god. However, those that do believe are equally entitled to their beliefs as you are to believe he did not exist at all.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

I have never chastised you for your beliefs. I accept that you believe there is no god. My problem is with your unwillingness to accept that others believe there is. I only press you to prove that God does not exist to highlight that you no more have a monopoly on the truth than I do.

You can talk about how you have lots of religious friends, but the one thing that comes through very clearly in these arguments is that you are highly intolerant of the beliefs of others.

Intolerance is one of mans greatest failings, which as a further irony, only shows that you yourself serve as an argument against your own beliefs in the inherent goodness in mankind.

As far as the existence of Jesus goes, don't confuse me for being a Christian. I believe in the existence of god(s), but I do not subscribe to any of man's religions. I see no reason to doubt that he existed, however I do not subscribe to the belief that he was the son of a god. However, those that do believe are equally entitled to their beliefs as you are to believe he did not exist at all.

Oh cmon Snake...you dont know me at all....I post here asking simple and pointed questions. troutman has done the excat same thing I have as well as Cowperson on many occasions. Theists get upset when ANYONE questions their validity. If you take the side of a Christian yet arent one isnt that a fence sitter...or hedging your bets?
I dont hedge my bets at all...I have made a firm decision and stick with it. Much like a true theist...yet noone seems to hound on them for invading the lives of secular people. I never waiver. This post is about one of the most reprehensible religions out there, and I added why leave it at Scientology, which everyone agrees is bogus, and leave out all the others? troutman asked the same question...yet you never hammered on him at all. All religions are started the exact same way....by man. So either like em and let em all breed, or start discussing the real need for man made religions to exist. Like I said earlier...be spiritual if you want....dance to a sun or moon...love animals or plants...help the planet...love your fellow man...but dont tell me you are any better of a person whatsoever because you follow a goD. That is the most bogus statement that can possibly be made.
Every Atheist I know does wonderful deeds for man...donating thousands if not millions of dollars to great causes..we also teach our children the truth...dont believe in fairy tales or ghosts.

[White Doors]

Our Reptilian brain? Last time I checked, we were mammals but maybe we are evolved from silurians or something. Or maybe we are all part of COBRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! deep inside.

We still have the remnants of our reptilian brain.

Yep, I agree religion has caused and can cause harm, but so can every other belief man has.

[MJK]

Here is little story I would like to share.

Two Mormon's showed up at my door today. I turned them away very quickly, initially ****ed that I had to deal with them but then I felt bad becuase these two guys have obviously been brainwashed. Now, two things have come out of this:

1. I end up feeling bad for these two brainwashed guys becuase they obviouly don't know any better and grew up in this type of silly environment.

2. I am the bad guy becuase I hate what they stand for.

They can believe whatever they want but just don't tell me about it. Do not catch yourself preaching to me becuase I will stop it real quick.

It amazes me how ignorant the vast majority of the human species can be, believe in something so strongly that their entire world revolves around it.

I believe in Science. Science has PROVEN many things over the past hundred years that should quickly dismiss most religious beliefs. I could go on and on and on but for those of you are here and strongly believe in a particular religion, I know my words will mean nothing to you.

Have a good day.