Coulter criticizes 9/11 wives...

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Azure

Because many, many other military moms have had the exact same experiance, yet they believe exactly the opposite.

And you know that ...how exactly? Because they have been vocal about it?

Originally Posted by Azure

Why wasn't Cindy Sheehen so vocal about the war and bringing the troops home prior to Casey being killed?

Did you know who she was before Casey was killed? How do you know she wasn't vocal about bringing the troops home? She had been speaking for months before the media noticed.

Cindy Sheehan's son was killed, and that fact has driven her to try and have the troops brought home so other mothers don't suffer as she has.

So far you have called he "pathetic", said "she used the death of he son to further he means". You called her "an idiot".

If you don't agree with her about Iraq, then how about debating about Iraq instead of launching ad hominem attacks?

[Azure]

And you know that ...how exactly? Because they have been vocal about it?

Because I know some of them personally.....heck I know a lot of them personally.

Did you know who she was before Casey was killed? How do you know she wasn't vocal about bringing the troops home? She had been speaking for months before the media noticed.

No, not really. Which is exactly my point. The media only picked up on her after her son was killed, meaning she used her son's death to get to the media. I didn't realize she was protesting at the President's ranch in Texas prior to her sons death.

Cindy Sheehan's son was killed, and that fact has driven her to try and have the troops brought home so other mothers don't suffer as she has.

Well many moms have suffered like she has, but they don't come out and demand anything, either way.

If you don't agree with her about Iraq, then how about debating about Iraq instead of launching ad hominem attacks?

And how is it possible to debate with Cindy Sheehan about Iraq?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

You mean like when people equate questioning the war = you don't support our troops?

It happens on both sides.

No question. I've seen that too.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Azure

And how is it possible to debate with Cindy Sheehan about Iraq?

Well she is arguing for the troops to come home, how about looking at he resoning and explaining why she is wrong, or why you are correct.

You know, debate instead of demean?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Well she is arguing for the troops to come home, how about looking at he resoning and explaining why she is wrong, or why you are correct.

You know, debate instead of demean?

Obviously her position on bringing the troops home explains to everyone that she has no intellect about Iraq. God knows what would happen if the troops came home.

Like IFF has said, its a little late to argue about justification of the war and use it to support your arguement of bringing the troops home. It would be devasting to Iraq if that happened now.

[White Doors]

Cindy Sheehan is a shill. Her husband divorced her. I do feel bad for her because of her son being killed, but mostly I feal bad for her because she has obviously gone off the deep end.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Azure

Obviously her position on bringing the troops home explains to everyone that she has no intellect about Iraq. God knows what would happen if the troops came home.

There you go again, you can't just discount her out of hand by saying she has no intellect.

Originally Posted by Azure

Like IFF has said, its a little late to argue about justification of the war and use it to support your arguement of bringing the troops home. It would be devasting to Iraq if that happened now.

I disagree that it is too late to argue the justifications for the war, but I agree that it is a poor set of reasons for pulling out now.

My personal position is that the US should not have ever gone to war in Iraq, but that is a whole different issue. However, I have always believed that once they went in and removed all the underpinning of the government they would need to stay until a new, Iraqi gov't was in place and stable.

I agree that the US cannot, and should not withdraw now.

But the villification of Cindy Sheehan as a way to marginalize her opinion is wrong. The demonization of the 9-11 widows by Coulter and her ilk is revolting. It is a strategy of destroying the messenger when you don't like the message, you're with us or against us, policies of diviciveness that are dirty and shouldn't have any place in rational discussions.

[Azure]

There you go again, you can't just discount her out of hand by saying she has no intellect.

You prove to me in your next paragraph that she has no intellect.

I disagree that it is too late to argue the justifications for the war, but I agree that it is a poor set of reasons for pulling out now.

My personal position is that the US should not have ever gone to war in Iraq, but that is a whole different issue. However, I have always believed that once they went in and removed all the underpinning of the government they would need to stay until a new, Iraqi gov't was in place and stable.

I agree that the US cannot, and should not withdraw now.

But the villification of Cindy Sheehan as a way to marginalize her opinion is wrong. The demonization of the 9-11 widows by Coulter and her ilk is revolting. It is a strategy of destroying the messenger when you don't like the message, you're with us or against us, policies of diviciveness that are dirty and shouldn't have any place in rational discussions.

I'm not saying that we're not allowed to argue about the justification of the war, but I feel its a little late to use that idea as your basis for withdrawing the troops.

Obviously Cindy Sheehan can't see beyond the "freedom fighters" and "get the troops out of Iraq" to realize that right now it isn't an option.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Azure

You prove to me in your next paragraph that she has no intellect.

I say NOTHING about her intellect.

Just because I disagree with her says nothing about her intellect. Why do you seem to think that?

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm not saying that we're not allowed to argue about the justification of the war, but I feel its a little late to use that idea as your basis for withdrawing the troops.

And she "feels" differently. If you can't explain WHY you feel like that, then you may as well stop arguing because your "feeling" doesn't give anyone else a basis on which to understand your position.

Originally Posted by Azure

Obviously Cindy Sheehan can't see beyond the "freedom fighters" and "get the troops out of Iraq" to realize that right now it isn't an option.

Why is that obvious? Because you don't agree?
I think that because while Saddam was a brutal dictator, he did provide fire/police and government that allowed the society to function. By pulling him down, I believe the US has on obligation to remain in country until those primary societal functions can run without outside support once again.
Cindy Sheehan believes the lives being lost are not justified by the cause they are being killed for. I respectfully disagree with her. That does not mean she is ignorant.

[Azure]

I say NOTHING about her intellect.

Just because I disagree with her says nothing about her intellect. Why do you seem to think that?

I would think that anyone that has half a brain about Iraq would realize that under no circumstances can the US pull out.

Why is that obvious? Because you don't agree?
I think that because while Saddam was a brutal dictator, he did provide fire/police and government that allowed the society to function. By pulling him down, I believe the US has on obligation to remain in country until those primary societal functions can run without outside support once again.
Cindy Sheehan believes the lives being lost are not justified by the cause they are being killed for. I respectfully disagree with her. That does not mean she is ignorant.

Cindy Sheehan thinks that if the US pulls out, all their problems will be solved. Therefore she is ignorant because she has no clue what she's talking about.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Azure

I would think that anyone that has half a brain about Iraq would realize that under no circumstances can the US pull out.



Cindy Sheehan thinks that if the US pulls out, all their problems will be solved. Therefore she is ignorant because she has no clue what she's talking about.

...someone certainly has no intellect.

She doesn't care about Iraq. She cares about the American troops in Iraq. I doubt she cares if Iraq got over-run by terrorists as it is not her goal.

If the US did pull out, a problem would be solved. No more American soldiers dying in Iraq, which is what she is rallying against. I doubt she is ignorant to the situation nor does she have no clue what she is talking about. She takes a different approach to the situation, it's not the normal approach but it is still valid.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

...someone certainly has no intellect.

She doesn't care about Iraq. She cares about the American troops in Iraq. I doubt she cares if Iraq got over-run by terrorists as it is not her goal.

If the US did pull out, a problem would be solved. No more American soldiers dying in Iraq, which is what she is rallying against. I doubt she is ignorant to the situation nor does she have no clue what she is talking about. She takes a different approach to the situation, it's not the normal approach but it is still valid.

And if the allies would have pulled out of WW2, it would have solved one problem, no more allied troops being killed.

I don't think it matters anymore whether or not you like the reasons for going to war, or for that matter agree with them; what matters is that the US is responsible for getting Iraq and its government back on the right track.

I think its a honorable cause, and many of the troops in Iraq believe the same. Cindy Sheehan is taking the wrong approach to something she wants. Pulling the troops out of Iraq will not solve anything, but will only make things worse.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

...someone certainly has no intellect.

She doesn't care about Iraq. She cares about the American troops in Iraq. I doubt she cares if Iraq got over-run by terrorists as it is not her goal.

If the US did pull out, a problem would be solved. No more American soldiers dying in Iraq, which is what she is rallying against. I doubt she is ignorant to the situation nor does she have no clue what she is talking about. She takes a different approach to the situation, it's not the normal approach but it is still valid.

So she's a racist. She doesn't care about all the Iraqis that would die if the US withdraws from a Iraq?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by peter12

So she's a racist. She doesn't care about all the Iraqis that would die if the US withdraws from a Iraq?

Well finally we get a square way of looking at things. This is the first sign of sense I've read in weeks!

If you don't support an invasion and occupation of far Iraq, you are a heartless racist. Good ol' Pete tells it like it is, of that you can be sure!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well finally we get a square way of looking at things. This is the first sign of sense I've read in weeks!

If you don't support an invasion and occupation of far Iraq, you are a heartless racist. Good ol' Pete tells it like it is, of that you can be sure!

Who said anything about the invasion? I'm pretty sure Peter was talking about what would happen if the US withdrew.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

Who said anything about the invasion? I'm pretty sure Peter was talking about what would happen if the US withdrew.

It's the thought that counts.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

It's the thought that counts.

Oh, right.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

It's the thought that counts.

All the pro/anti Iraq bull**** is getting ridiculous. The actual invasion and occupation of Iraq is long in the past. I know now, along with anyone with common sense, that an American withdrawal from Iraq would result in alot more death and destruction than if they stayed.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by peter12

All the pro/anti Iraq bull**** is getting ridiculous. The actual invasion and occupation of Iraq is long in the past. I know now, along with anyone with common sense, that an American withdrawal from Iraq would result in alot more death and destruction than if they stayed.

You know what I think is bull****? Accusing an anti-war activist, one who's son actually died in the war, of being motivated by racism, and of sweeping all the deceits and incompetence that led to the war under the rug because it didn't happen yesterday.

As for common sense, I think it's common sense to wonder if the troops should be pulled out simply because George and the other chickenhawks think they should stay. If that bunch stubbornly insist on anything to do with Iraq, there is a decent chance they've got it wrong.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You know what I think is bull****? Accusing an anti-war activist, one who's son actually died in the war, of being motivated by racism, and of sweeping all the deceits and incompetence that led to the war under the rug because it didn't happen yesterday.

As for common sense, I think it's common sense to wonder if the troops should be pulled out simply because George and the other chickenhawks think they should stay. If that bunch stubbornly insist on anything to do with Iraq, there is a decent chance they've got it wrong.

Oh sorry I think you misunderstood. I was more or less challenging Blaster86's line of logic, not really calling Cindy Sheehan a racist. Though I do disagree with your perception of what foreign policy should be.