Yes folks...the conspiracy theorists have turned on each other!!!!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Because it suited his political purposes to have his near enemies think that he had WMD and he never believed that the USA would actually attack. Big mistake.

I thought you just said he did have WMD.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Why is manipulating the public into backing a war based on false pretenses a bad thing? Do you really need me to answer that question?

And who cares what Bill Clinton had to say on the matter?

Maybe because Clinton was President too?

I never said it was a bad thing, Vulcan did.

Remember?

I'm not sure of Bush's motives, but how he has grabbed power and manipulated the press and the public makes me very wary.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Because it suited his political purposes to have his near enemies think that he had WMD and he never believed that the USA would actually attack. Big mistake.

Yes, so we should be blaming Saddam for playing chicken and getting creamed no?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

Maybe because Clinton was President too?

I never said it was a bad thing, Vulcan did.

Remember?

Yeah I remember. You also said he was stupid for believing it. Now, apparently, you believe it as well.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Bush was not installed he was elected fair and square:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html

Reading comprehension is a weakness I guess? That document supports the case that Bush was installed by the Supreme Court when they stopped the recount and investigation going on in Florida surrounding ballot irregularities.

They are not even close to be similar in scope:
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/burns.htm

The point was that both leaders used threatening events to make a power grab. It was not a comparison between the two events, but the results. Jesus, its like talking to a two year old.

He was referring to the role of non-combatants and POW. The Geneva convention agrees with him in his assertion. You have to be a uniformed soldier part of a national army in order for the Geneva convention to apply to you:

Only point you have made worth consideration. The argument in regards to coverage of the Geneva Convention is a good one, but one of an international tribunal to decide, not some lacky in the Bush administration. Any changes to agreed to accords of this nature must be taken up within that framework. Unilateral decisions like this lead to alienation, not cooperation and acceptance. Using that same train of thought, because there is no official declaration of war, that makes any American in Iraq an illegal occupier of a foreign entity and not protected by the Geneva Convention. The Islamists may feel free to gut any American like a fish and only have to worry about the judgement of Shia law.

Not sure there you're getting at with that list, but suffice to say, the USA was atacked and Germany was not. Unless you believe that Poland made the first move?

The list was to show the parallels that took place prior to and during the illegal invasions by both nations. Yes, the United States was attacked, but by who? I don't seem to recall an Afghani army invasion. I don't seem to remember an Iraqi being involved at all. The whole trail actually led to the doorstep of Saudi Arabia. You would know that if you bothered to do ANY research on the events of 9/11. You know, the event you blame everything on.

Hitler was an atheist. And he was a Nationalist first and foremost, not a Christian. i think we can all agree that Bush is a Christian first and foremost no?

WTF??? Hitler was an aetheist? Where did you dream that up? Have you ever read Mein Kampf? There are numerous references to his belief in a Christian God. Growing up, Hitler went to a montesary school and had the goal of becoming a priest. Hitler's philosophy came from the German Christian Social movement (which is very similar to today's Chritian movement in America).

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

But hey, if turning him into an aetheist allows you to sleep at night, fill your boots. You're full of ****, but what else is new.

Anyways - like I said, there are no moral similaroties here at all and it's plain to see.

Yup, what ever you say so.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

How the hell has he manipulated the public? My God you people are stupid.

How has he manipulated the public? Get serious. How about starting with fudging the evidence to invade Iraq? How about the endless threats that of terrorist attacks and DHS elevations? The smoke screens and arm waiving has been endless since 9/11. Manipulation is the man't middle name.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Dont worry he is gone in a few years and you wont have to put up with him and then you can get off this big conspiracy mumbo jumbo rant.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah I remember. You also said he was stupid for believing it. Now, apparently, you believe it as well.

I don't think that Presidents manipulate the public. I think they present a viewpoint or opinion, and the public decides if they like it.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't think that Presidents manipulate the public. I think they present a viewpoint or opinion, and the public decides if they like it.

I agree 100%.

Most of the public just blindly follow what their told. That is the REAL problem.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Dont worry he is gone in a few years and you wont have to put up with him and then you can get off this big conspiracy mumbo jumbo rant.

Hey jackass, how about you try debaiting a point instead of these mindless drive-bys? You and White Doors probably share the same brain cell, but it would be nice if ONE of you two would actually pick a subject, stick to it, and try to debate the content.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

How has he manipulated the public? Get serious. How about starting with fudging the evidence to invade Iraq? How about the endless threats that of terrorist attacks and DHS elevations? The smoke screens and arm waiving has been endless since 9/11. Manipulation is the man't middle name.

Actually, I won't bring up your past Lanny. Sorry if you read what I deleted.

I have a different opinion then you, especially on most of the stuff you mentioned. Given that you know where I come from, and the influence I have, one could say mine is biased. I would call it optimistic.

Being in a military family, I'm not really prone to argue about the causes of war, reasons for going to war, or even the "unjust" war. It does happen at times, and ends up getting me no where.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

You yourself believed that Bush should take out Saddam, once upon a time. Did he manipulate your viewpoint too?

Yes, I believed that before I got all the proper information. When I believed that I was under the impression that Hussein had a hand in the plot. As the facts came out, many of which I discovered on my own through independent research, I changed my view. That's what information does. That's how I know the message was manipulated. A little education on a subject goes a long way to altering your view.

Hahaha! Beat you to it!!!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Yes, I believed that before I got all the proper information. When I believed that I was under the impression that Hussein had a hand in the plot. As the facts came out, many of which I discovered on my own through independent research, I changed my view. That's what information does. That's how I know the message was manipulated. A little education on a subject goes a long way to altering your view.

Hahaha! Beat you to it!!!

Sheesh Lanny. And I thought I'd show some respect and not bring the subject up.

[White Doors]

The point was that both leaders used threatening events to make a power grab. It was not a comparison between the two events, but the results. Jesus, its like talking to a two year old.

Uh.. Bush had 9/11 happen to him while he was in power. Hitler had the Reichstag burned in order to declare himself dictator. Even a 2 year old like me can see the difference Lanny.
Unless you are saying that Bush orchestrated 9.11 so he could invade Iraq and Afghanistan and legislate the patriot act? Is that what you are trying to say Lanny? Yeah, I figured.

Only point you have made worth consideration. The argument in regards to coverage of the Geneva Convention is a good one, but one of an international tribunal to decide, not some lacky in the Bush administration. Any changes to agreed to accords of this nature must be taken up within that framework. Unilateral decisions like this lead to alienation, not cooperation and acceptance. Using that same train of thought, because there is no official declaration of war, that makes any American in Iraq an illegal occupier of a foreign entity and not protected by the Geneva Convention. The Islamists may feel free to gut any American like a fish and only have to worry about the judgement of Shia law.

Yes the Islamists are free to do what they want, but the can't suckle up to the Geneva teet when they get caught either. You can't have it both ways.

The list was to show the parallels that took place prior to and during the illegal invasions by both nations. Yes, the United States was attacked, but by who? I don't seem to recall an Afghani army invasion. I don't seem to remember an Iraqi being involved at all. The whole trail actually led to the doorstep of Saudi Arabia. You would know that if you bothered to do ANY research on the events of 9/11. You know, the event you blame everything on.

Yes, alot of the people who were in the planes were Saudi - who doesn't know that? ie: they died in the attacks. The went after who ordered it, who planned it and they did in taking out the taliban who refused to give up Al Quaeda and Osama. Are you saying that the Saudi Royal family planned it? Are you saying that the USA should have carpet bombed Saudia Arabia because that's where the perpetrators are from?
You realize how ridiculous that sounds?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

I thought you just said he did have WMD.

You know I once dated a woman as dumb as you but she had other attractions to keep me interested.

[White Doors]

Yes, he was an atheist:

Much of the opposition to the eugenic movement came from German Christians. Although Hitler was baptized a Catholic, he was never excommunicated, and evidently 'considered himself a good Roman Catholic' as a young man, and at times used religious language. He clearly had strong, even vociferous, anti-Christian feelings as an adult, as did probably most Nazi party leaders. As a consummate politician, though, he openly tried to exploit the church. Hitler once revealed his attitude toward Christianity when he bluntly stated that religion is an:
' ... organized lie [that] must be smashed. The State must remain the absolute master. When I was younger, I thought it was necessary to set about [destroying religion] with dynamite. I've since realized there's room for a little subtlety ... The final state must be . in St. Peter's Chair, a senile officiant; facing him a few sinister old women . The young and healthy are on our side . it's impossible to eternally hold humanity in bondage and lies ... [It] was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed upon our peoples ... Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn't prevent them from going to their death with serenity in their souls.'
His beliefs as revealed in this quote are abundantly clear: the younger people who were the hope of Germany were 'absolutely indifferent in matters of religion'. As Keith noted, the Nazi party viewed Darwinism and Christianity as polar opposites. Milner said of Germany's father of evolution, Ernst Haeckel, that in his Natural History of Creation he argued that 'the church with its morality of love and charity is an effete fraud, a perversion of the natural order'. A major reason why Haeckel concluded this was because Christianity:
' ... makes no distinction of race or of color; it seeks to break down all racial barriers. In this respect the hand of Christianity is against that of Nature, for are not the races of mankind the evolutionary harvest which Nature has toiled through long ages to produce? May we not say, then, that Christianity is anti-evolutionary in its aim?'

'The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.' (Keith, A., Evolution and Ethics, Putnam, NY, USA, p. 230, 1947. )"

but you're right Lanny - you stay in your fantasy world. A guy who practised eugenics and racial purity but didn't believe in evolution..

The only tme he used religion was when it suited him politically. At the end of the day none of us will really know what he thought inside, but we can all agree he was not a pious man by any means.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Yes, he was an atheist:


but you're right Lanny - you stay in your fantasy world. A guy who practised eugenics and racial purity but didn't believe in evolution..

So all of those relgious quotes in Mein Kampf were just for fun?

What the hell do you mean by the next sentence? You're chasing your own tail. You're not making any sense.

The only tme he used religion was when it suited him politically. At the end of the day none of us will really know what he thought inside, but we can all agree he was not a pious man by any means.

Hmmmm, that sounds like another leader who is also being discussed. George Bush only found God when he decided he was going to take a run at politics. What a coincidence!!! But I'm sure you'll find some way to twist the truth and change good ole Dubya to the most pious of individuals with the purist of hearts.

With that, I am done with you. Onto the ignore list where I should have put you a very long time ago.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You know I once dated a woman as dumb as you but she had other attractions to keep me interested.

Well quit contradicting yourself.

[White Doors]

he wants me to backup my facts against his outrageous claims and then I go on ignore. Wow - I woudl have done that a long time ago if I knew he woudl have done that.

Lanny, you can't handle the truth! (TM)

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by White Doors

he wants me to backup my facts against his outrageous claims and then I go on ignore. Wow - I woudl have done that a long time ago if I knew he woudl have done that.

Lanny, you can't handle the truth! (TM)

It is the " BAck up your argument to refute my wild conspiracy theory or you are on ignore so I don't have to face up to facts " argument.

Accept defeat.