Worst team in the league - Are we "OK" with it?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

NYR is the only one to announce it. Other teams just did it (not always on purpose). People just watched other teams and came to conclusion. Like they might be with Calgary now.

Ya nobody announces it except the Rangers and then they cut their rebuild short after 12 months.

The Flames are executing a burn it to the ground rebuild better than any team that I can remember. Traded 8 veterans for picks/prospects and younger players in a two year period. Most in NHL cap history over a 2 year period. If they trade two more this year for picks/prospects it will be 10 in 3 years, which would also be a NHL record. Tough part about this stage of the rebuild is they are running out of veterans that they can trade for picks and prospects.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ya nobody announces it except the Rangers and then they cut their rebuild short after 12 months.

The Flames are executing a burn it to the ground rebuild better than any team that I can remember. Traded 8 veterans for picks/prospects and younger players in a two year period. Most in NHL cap history over a 2 year period. If they trade two more this year for picks/prospects it will be 10 in 3 years, which would also be a NHL record. Tough part about this stage of the rebuild is they are running out of veterans that they can trade for picks and prospects.

I pretty much see the rebuild as being over, now the burn out portion of the rebuild, when Anderson and Coleman are traded. I don’t think that anybody else has any particular value around league, and I don’t think kadri is going anywhere before next year, if at all.

We know we have Backlund, pospisil, weegar and probably kadri as our veteran leadership?

I would like nothing better than to add another first and another second to the draft this year and walk out with 3/ first two seconds and 3/3.

[Jason14h]

Here’s an interesting look at “rebuilds”

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/do...fs-stanley-cup

Now people may disagree with their criteria for entering and exiting a rebuild but on average it took 8.5 years to exist a rebuild (and according to their standing criteria Flames haven’t even entered one yet )

This is why expecting a fast turnaround when we haven’t even bottomed out / entered a true rebuild is unlikely if not crazy

Also funny / sad is that of the “successful” rebuilds of the last 20 years - The Flames rebuild had the least success

[Scrambler]

I'm ok with it. As long as they stay around there. Earn an asset at the draft like never before in the team's history. Lose a lot in the rough schedule this month so that some assets want out.

This franchise has a lot to look forward to no matter how painful this season is to watch. Zoom out and this is what this team has needed for a long time. Just so happens to be a great draft in 2026, that's icing on the cake

[Flame On]

I am ok with it but I don't think it was at all strategic, more happened to them. Sure they moved in that direction on purpose but you can't convince me that they didn't think they'd be right back at a point or two from playoffs and would have made decisions based on that.
But I do think CC can make it work for them ultimately, so that's hopeful.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I don't think the Flames are doing it on purpose, so I don't have a problem with them bottoming out and getting McKenna if that's what it comes to. I hated it when Buffalo and Edmonton did it because it seemed like they were doing it on purpose, or they were so terrible that they didn't deserve a first overall pick. Of all the teams in the league that haven't picked at the top, I think the Flames probably deserve a first overall pick because they've never purposely bottomed out and have always either nearly made it in or got in and got bounced in the first round. I hate that absolute mediocrity is rewarded.

With all of that said, it's risky business bottoming out because sometimes you'll find yourself stuck in the mud for entire decades. There are a lot more Sabres examples out there.

Buffalo did it on purpose - and they did it in embarrassing fashion. However, Edmonton was just terrible. They bottomed-out while being a cap team IIRC. They were actively trying to win, but were incompetent. At the Hall draft - the first #1 pick - I still remember Katz saying: "We will never do this again."


I get what you are saying, however!

Just to add to a few other posts and sentiments:


Every team goes up and competes (or tries to anyway), and every team goes down and bottoms-out. Some teams aggressively try to stay away from bottoming-out by signing UFAs and trading picks and prospects to try and stabilize themselves in the mushy middle, or just inside the playoffs. Some teams go the other way and look at the #1 pick as a prize, and do everything they can to try and win that prize.


Conroy is doing this naturally. He isn't fighting against the current. There is very little success to be gained from fighting against the current. Just like salmon - they get carried down the stream, they grow up and develop mostly in the ocean, and when they are ready, they fight like hell to get back.

I am not sure where the Flames end up, but there is no need to tank in order to get a high pick. Nobody is tanking yet. I expect Pittsburgh to pull the shoot soon, but it hasn't happened yet. There are bad teams, don't get me wrong, everyone who has been at the bottom of the standings in the last 5 seasons or so is either trying to improve, or they have improved. I think last place this season finishes with higher points than last place last season.


Also, having a goaltender like Wolf doesn't make the Flames immune from finishing last. Buffalo had Hasek, and the only reason they didn't finish last in the standings was because of Hasek + the team in front of him as they were trying not to bottom out. Wolf can't do it all himself, and especially this season with teams on average improving rather than regressing (who were at the bottom of the standings), it is certainly possible to finish last overall, or at least pretty damn close.

We will see where they end up, but this seems like a bottoming-out year so far.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Here’s an interesting look at “rebuilds”

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/do...fs-stanley-cup

Now people may disagree with their criteria for entering and exiting a rebuild but on average it took 8.5 years to exist a rebuild (and according to their standing criteria Flames haven’t even entered one yet )

This is why expecting a fast turnaround when we haven’t even bottomed out / entered a true rebuild is unlikely if not crazy

Also funny / sad is that of the “successful” rebuilds of the last 20 years - The Flames rebuild had the least success

Yeah, I don't agree with their criteria at all for defining when a rebuild starts. Sucking isn't the same as rebuilding. They have New Jersey as currently being in a 15 year rebuild, unless I am misunderstanding.

For me, a rebuild starts when you change over your core players and franchise players either age out or are flipped for youth. Simply sucking and getting some high draft picks while actually trying to compete is just straight up failure, not a rebuild.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I’ve said as much already, you may have missed it. The flames have a long and storied history of futility, so it shouldn’t be surprising if fans are skeptical of ownership and management being capable of executing a rebuild. The last supposed rebuild this team did was considered rushed after an unexpected trip to the playoffs (2014). History hasn’t reflected well on the brass of this team.

Who cares if fans are skeptical?

[saillias]

It's good for multiple reasons. It's a good year to be bad, if Ottawa is still in the basement it's one less competitor for the lottery, and the high end of the draft is very strong.

Second I think it's good to set the direction Flames management will take going forward. I think they need a bit of a push to fully embrace it and if ownership doesn't like it they can't stop the team from being last

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

it would be nice to have some confirmation from the team that it’s rebuild mode now.

Why does this matter? We all know the team is rebuilding even though they won't use the word.

The biggest thing we should be happy about is Conroy isn't blowing cap space trying to chase the playoffs. Trading for Farabee and Frost was just as much for the future as the present. It's not like both were 29 year olds.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sure if you think the same decision makes from 2014 are in place.

They're not.

I think you'd have to look back at years missing the playoffs, and look for cap space, and then look for trade additions at the deadline. Any years with additions and little cap space is a completely different world from what they're doing now.

They are.

There are 2 consistent components to this, ownership and failure to deliver in the playoffs. And before you try and come down on that statement, yes multiple things can be true at once. We have seen multiple complete roster turnovers, new coaches out of the wazoo, a half dozen new GMs, some brass in and out and yet the results over the last quarter century (!) speak for themselves.

It’s the only piece that hasn’t changed. You’d think ownership would be tired of being consistent losers, and yet.

[FireGilbert]

It’s been 5 games. Wasn’t it Peter Maher who always said you shouldn’t look at the first 20 games, it’s games 21-40 that define the season. Maybe they are the worse or maybe are a bubble team again, it’s too early to tell.

There are lots of other bad teams this year. The Sharks, Hawks, BJs, and Flyers aren’t good, then there are the Isles, Rangers, Pens, Sabres, Preds, and even the Sens that could struggle. It’s going to be tough to out suck them all.

[1_Flames_Fan]

Yup, fan for 40 plus years. Totally fine with finishing last in the league this year. Let Parekh play and learn and make his mistakes. Play all the youngsters, trade the vets that you can and with any luck score that number one pick.

[Badgers Nose]

Based on what this team seems to be trying to do, I hope they pull the plug early move out all the vets they can and shamelessly play as many kids as they can.

Penguins do this every generation and no one remembers the intentional crap years, only the Cups. Flames need to smarten up, be pragmatic about how the NHL works.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Based on what this team seems to be trying to do, I hope they pull the plug early move out all the vets they can and shamelessly play as many kids as they can.

Penguins do this every generation and no one remembers the intentional crap years, only the Cups. Flames need to smarten up, be pragmatic about how the NHL works.

When you look at the Penguins and the contracts they have expiring over the next few seasons, it looks like they are orchestrating it again. Really nobody on long term deals and most expiring in the next couple years. That's a rebuild.

https://puckpedia.com/team/pittsburgh-penguins

[Badgers Nose]

They have it dialled into a science.

It’s organizational, institutional, legacy knowledge.

You have to respect it. They went from ‘moving to Hamilton’ to one of the great franchises in the NHL.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

When you look at the Penguins and the contracts they have expiring over the next few seasons, it looks like they are orchestrating it again. Really nobody on long term deals and most expiring in the next couple years. That's a rebuild.

https://puckpedia.com/team/pittsburgh-penguins

Yes but did the GM specifically come out and write a notarized letter to every individual fan stating that we are officially entering a rebuild at a specific date and time? If not, it doesn't count.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Yes but did the GM specifically come out and write a notarized letter to every individual fan stating that we are officially entering a rebuild at a specific date and time? If not, it doesn't count.

Actually, this is a good point! The whole letter announcing rebuild is usually done these days. I just got a light bulb moment.


Assuming Calgary is in a rebuild, when should it have been announced? Conroy is not going to announce a rebuild after everyone bolted, right? It would have been an embarrassing letter like: "Since our best players decided to leave the team, we can no longer compete, so we will be entering a rebuild."


Then last season, they exceed expectations and basically just lose out on a playoff berth with extraordinary circumstances. Tough time for Conroy to come out and announce a rebuild, right?


I mean, everything he is doing basically aligns with a rebuild, but there has not been a good time to announce it. If the Flames finish in the bottom 5 or so this year, I bet he announces it.


That's my theory. It makes sense to me anyway (but crazy people don't think they are crazy, right? lol).

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

They have it dialled into a science.

It’s organizational, institutional, legacy knowledge.

You have to respect it. They went from ‘moving to Hamilton’ to one of the great franchises in the NHL.

Winning the Crosby lottery which was entirely luck might have helped

[FlamesAddiction]

I think with some teams, like the Flames, NMCs and NTCs make rebuilding harder these days. If you can even move the player at all, you are often limited by the number of teams you can move them to which limits the market, which limits the return.

Pittsburgh seems to have been planning theirs for years. It probably didn't hurt that their franchise players are aging out right around the same time as McKenna and Dupont are coming around.

The Flames were basically thrown into it. Not a lot of time to plan and a lot of denial about situation at the time. They thought they could patch it by air dropping expensive veterans on long term deals. It makes truly rebuilding like the Sharks are doing, and what teams like Colorado and Chicago did, and what it looks like the Pens are doing, that much harder.