[News] Brent Seabrook added to Flames Player Development staff

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Why are you guys always mehd

And without my infuriating presence!

Are we still bickering about Seabrooks role in the Chicago incident?

Its not nearly as bad as making Stan Bowman your GM.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I am not saying Seabrook is beyond reproach and shouldn't be asked these questions. However, I do think that his hiring and those that don't see it as a moral failing by the Flames is some form of homerism or whataboutism.

I don't see it as a moral failing of the Flames. I don't hold the Flames responsible for Seabrook's inaction. I do question why you would want someone with this severe character flaw teaching your young kids how to be a leader.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Want to elaborate?

I'm not seeing a lot of defense of sexual assault or bullying in this topic.

I’m not talking about you.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I don't see it as a moral failing of the Flames. I don't hold the Flames responsible for Seabrook's inaction. I do question why you would want someone with this severe character flaw teaching your young kids how to be a leader.

Well, I guess that is a start to a better understanding. I really don't think anyone involved in the discussion is dismissing the seriousness of the issue.

For me, I don't see this as a severe character flaw. It might be, but I don't know. Peer pressure, group dynamics and the like make people do stupid things. They may not stand up to bullying, they may take part in the mob, they may simply say nothing. You want more from Seabrook, and I can understand that. I just am not so sure that given those circumstances that I would now conclude that he is incapable of teaching young kids how to be a leader.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I’m not talking about you.

Who are you talking about?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Are you talking to me?

[Rhett44]

The truth is the way this is getting so heated is exactly why we should not have hired him in the first place. People are going to have strong opinions and the Flames have opened up a can of worms.

[Red_Baron]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

And what about a 3rd party report and literally other players on the team have said they know?


You people are ridiculous. I am not making assumptions or guessing. We have been told who knew by people in the ####ing room. Them denying it only buries them further in my eyes.

Nevermind, my words will just get twisted.

[Red_Baron]

Originally Posted by paulie walnuts

i’m not talking about you.

nm

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

You are the one who has unrealistic expectations of a moral high ground for a player that was part of a sports team.

You are the ridiculous one here.

It's unrealistic to expect someone to come forward when a colleague is sexually assaulted because they play sports?

wat

[MikePatton]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Why are you guys always mehd

And without my infuriating presence!

It's Coach Q! Get him!

[Red_Baron]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It's unrealistic to expect someone to come forward when a colleague is sexually assaulted because they play sports?

wat

Blame management but to throw this on every member of this team is ridiculous. It is more appropriate for those that were closer to the situation be the ones who should have stood up, not someone distal to the situation who later became an assistant.

Again, your mental gymnastics of twisting words on this is ridiculous.

I'm out, label me whatever you like.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Are you talking to me?

Well I'm the only one here.

Well Im not. But Blaster86 is.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I very much doubt any fathers here would be singing the “rush to judgement” and “rage culture” songs if their son was sexually assault by an older man and his coworkers, who absolutely knew about it, stayed silent and called him a ###### instead of reporting it.

At least I’d hope.

I think this is the only thing anyone is objecting to with Seabrook. Lots of inferences and assumptions. Very little objective evidence.

[indes]

I definitely disagree with Seabrook being put in a mentorship role over young people in the organization. I think he's lost the right to hold a position like that after the events he was a part of. It's not like this is a long gone story in different circumstances, how are young players going to trust Seabrook? If a player is having an issue are they going to go to him?

If an accountant stayed silent about a huge embezzlement scandal, you probably wouldn't hire them to collect your charitable donations....

[CroFlames]

My take on it is that pro athletes are hyper focused on their goal - winning, especially the star players like Seabrook. Fringe players are hyper focused on being the best they can be so they can win a contract and stay in the league.

Did Seabrook know about the abuse? No doubt in my mind that he did. Did he do enough to try and stop it? I highly doubt it, probably telling himself his place was to focus on winning games and that management would look after the problem. That is a stain on his character forever, but I think a decade + after the fact, he can be given a second chance.

Those players who actively ridiculed poor Kyle Beach are pure #######s and I would never give them another shot.

There are degrees of evil with the various people involved.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

In my mind the people accountable for the brushing it under the rug are the coaching staff, management and front office leadership. Rightly this should be the first thing people talk about in situations like when Anaheim hired Joel Quenneville, Edmonton hired Stan Bowman, etc and in my mind it's a perfectly reasonable position to take that those folks should have life altering consequences for their inactions / actions including not being able to work in the NHL again and it is a shame that some of those folks found their way back into the league. Those are the people who ultimately enabled the abuse of Kyle Beach and who swept it under the rug.

Scarlett lettering the players on that team on the other hand doesn't seem right in my mind and goes too far. Many of the players were in their early 20s in 2010 when this happened - the expectation of them to take on their employer (coaches and management) to hold them to account is somewhat unrealistic given the asymmetric power balance between the fully mature grown a$$ adults in management who are actually accountable for managing both the on-ice and off-ice attributes of the team and the players.

Very tenuous at best to be calling out players as being permanently irredeemable characters and completely ridiculous in my mind to expect lifetime bans from future NHL employment based on that association alone.

While it does not touch Blaster's moral argument about taunting, the law would typically also not hold players accountable for the actions of a coach - whether they knew about it or not - when it is the team and management that is required to provide a safe environment. What we think about individuals making homophobic slurs (which could be part of creating an unsafe environment) and whether this guy was involved is certainly up for debate as someone brought in to mentor younger players. I would be shocked if the Flames did not do their due diligence, as it would be terrible for them to have not done so.

[Jiggy]

I wonder if Blaster was this enraged when the Canucks traded for Kane

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

I wonder if Blaster was this enraged when the Canucks traded for Kane

He knows Kane is a bad dude. In his mind he thinks Seabrook is a bad dude because of feelings.

We live in a world where Carter Hart is probably going to play in the NHL again and people are upset that Seabrook didn’t speak out on a incident he wasn’t part of, had nothing to do with, and there’s no conclusive evidence he knew exactly what happened at the time. If only everyone was as perfect a human being as some posters here.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

And what about a 3rd party report and literally other players on the team have said they know?


You people are ridiculous. I am not making assumptions or guessing. We have been told who knew by people in the ####ing room. Them denying it only buries them further in my eyes.

The report actually doesn't say if players knew at the time. Toews says he heard about it the next season. Hossa says he didn't know. Kane said he heard locker room rumours (I assume the next season as well). I don't think anything says that players knew there was a sexual assault and did not report it at the time.

The whole point of Quenneville's inaction recommendation was to prevent the team from knowing until after the POs.