Flames and Canucks in on Rossi?

[Macho0978]

It's tough to say if we should move 18 for Rossi. Even though he is worth 18 and you are still not likely to get anyone better at 18, there are enough players in this draft to get someone you like at 18. ELC with 1 slide year and many years of control makes it harder to move 18 for Rossi. If his contract demands were reasonable, Minnesota would probably sign him. His contract ask for me would change whether I give up 18.

Frost contract ask also plays a part in this. Frost might not want a 3-to-4-year deal, he might want 1 or 2 or 6+. He might be asking for too much as well.

If Frost signs a deal and Conroy signs a deal that I consider a good deal, I'm sticking with 18 and Frost. If Frost signs a bad deal, then I prefer to walk away from Frost and flip him for any pick you can get and then consider Rossi for 18.

Zary contract talks play a factor in this too.

Coronato sign right away, sounded like Zary would too but it hasn't happened. I can see Zary's camp looking at Coronato deal and thinking before Zary's injury he was looking for a similar deal and if the Flames are offering 3 x $3.5 mil now, Zary might not be happy with the offer.

If Zary contract talks aren't going well, maybe he gets moved too.

[ForeverFlameFan]

If Rossi is truly on the market for so little as the rumor suggests, you have to at LEAST drive up the price for Vancouver to overpay. I think Rossi would be a great addition to to this team, especially in the top 6. We still could use a top 6 center behind Kadri. Backlund is regressing, and Frost has a lot to go. Acquiring Rossi would be a great move and grabbing a player that was formerly a top 10 pick and someone that realistically should have gone higher in that deep draft year.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

If Rossi is truly on the market for so little as the rumor suggests, you have to at LEAST drive up the price for Vancouver to overpay. I think Rossi would be a great addition to to this team, especially in the top 6. We still could use a top 6 center behind Kadri. Backlund is regressing, and Frost has a lot to go. Acquiring Rossi would be a great move and grabbing a player that was formerly a top 10 pick and someone that realistically should have gone higher in that deep draft year.

The contract factors in though. Huberdeau is still a good player, but he is worthless in a trade due to his contract.

Rossi for 18 is worth it, if his contract ask is reasonable. But if you have to commit 8 years at $9 mil or more, you might want to consider walking away.

Or if he wants 3 years around $7.5 mil, this deal doesn't help the Flames long term, and he has a lot of control next contract negotiation. A valuable asset right when the new building is opening that we could lose or re-sign to a terrible deal.

I get Frost isn't as good, but if he is willing to commit 6 years around $5 mil, then he is a good option with less risk, and you get to keep 18.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

The contract factors in though. Huberdeau is still a good player, but he is worthless in a trade due to his contract.

Rossi for 18 is worth it, if his contract ask is reasonable. But if you have to commit 8 years at $9 mil or more, you might want to consider walking away.

Or if he wants 3 years around $7.5 mil, this deal doesn't help the Flames long term, and he has a lot of control next contract negotiation. A valuable asset right when the new building is opening that we could lose or re-sign to a terrible deal.

I get Frost isn't as good, but if he is willing to commit 6 years around $5 mil, then he is a good option with less risk, and you get to keep 18.

No way im giving frost 5x6. He hasn't done anything to earn that.
His career high is 46 points and 19g. And he's slight. Hes a mediocre 3c realisticly right now.
I'd give Frost a show me deadline, like 3.5x2.


Also you can't even really compare frost and Rossi since they're completely different caliber of players. Rossi is 3 years younger and has already vastly outperformed anything frost has done.

[Vinny01]

Things seem to be trending to a one year show me deal for Frost that either makes him a rental, or someone they are going to lock up for 5-8 years at 28 (depending how his season goes). As someone who thinks the flames as constructed today are going to be worse next year having Frost as a potential rental is not the worst thing.


On the flip side if the Wild would be interested in Frost as part of the return for Rossi I would be very interested. Frost+32 enough? Frost+18 I am less inclined.

[Lewis_D]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

It's tough to say if we should move 18 for Rossi. Even though he is worth 18 and you are still not likely to get anyone better at 18, there are enough players in this draft to get someone you like at 18. ELC with 1 slide year and many years of control makes it harder to move 18 for Rossi. If his contract demands were reasonable, Minnesota would probably sign him. His contract ask for me would change whether I give up 18.

Frost contract ask also plays a part in this. Frost might not want a 3-to-4-year deal, he might want 1 or 2 or 6+. He might be asking for too much as well.

If Frost signs a deal and Conroy signs a deal that I consider a good deal, I'm sticking with 18 and Frost. If Frost signs a bad deal, then I prefer to walk away from Frost and flip him for any pick you can get and then consider Rossi for 18.

Zary contract talks play a factor in this too.

Coronato sign right away, sounded like Zary would too but it hasn't happened. I can see Zary's camp looking at Coronato deal and thinking before Zary's injury he was looking for a similar deal and if the Flames are offering 3 x $3.5 mil now, Zary might not be happy with the offer.

If Zary contract talks aren't going well, maybe he gets moved too.

Yeah this is where I'm at as well. From an analytical standpoint the thought of Rossi and Petterka in the lineup would likely add enough scoring to get us in a + goal differential if you're using last season as a reference. However, it does feel like we already have a bit of logjam up front, so if you're looking to add any pieces I think it would need to either involve a hockey trade with a forward going out or a separate trade where we flip a player for picks.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by traptor

No way im giving frost 5x6. He hasn't done anything to earn that.
His career high is 46 points and 19g. And he's slight. Hes a mediocre 3c realisticly right now.
I'd give Frost a show me deadline, like 3.5x2.


Also you can't even really compare frost and Rossi since they're completely different caliber of players. Rossi is 3 years younger and has already vastly outperformed anything frost has done.

Cap is $96 mil now, what is your expectation for a player like this?

UFA players in Frost's range probably are getting over $6 mil no question.

Cap is also going to continue to rise. New TV deal is worth around $3 mil on the cap when it kicks in. Inflation on top of that, I see 5% as the min it goes up in the next 2 years. NHL says it will be way more.

When Bennett gets $10M+ and Marner gets more than Drasaitl, then Kaprizov and McDavid get more than Marner, 2nd line players will be getting $9-11M no question. $5M will be 3rd line money, 46 points seems like a steal.

What do you think some of the mid-range UFAs get this year?

What do you predict future RFAs like Coronato will get in 2 years?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Frost scored 46 3 seasons ago and paced at 29 points here. Lets see what he can do next year before committing a long term deal

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Lewis_D

Yeah this is where I'm at as well. From an analytical standpoint the thought of Rossi and Petterka in the lineup would likely add enough scoring to get us in a + goal differential if you're using last season as a reference. However, it does feel like we already have a bit of logjam up front, so if you're looking to add any pieces I think it would need to either involve a hockey trade with a forward going out or a separate trade where we flip a player for picks.

If we added Peterka and Rossi, I could see Conroy changing his tune on players out. He probably won't move too many players out without having new ones ready to move in.

Peterka and Rossi in, Frost, Zary, Coleman and Ras out would be good IMO. But contracts matter in this situation too.

Rossi and Peterka are getting paid quite a bit more due to production. But the gap in current vs future production could be less if guys like Frosts and Zary produce more. Rossi and Peterka both could be asking for $8M+ vs Zary and Frost in the $5M+ range. Returns on Zary and Frost are likely to be less than the cost in picks for Rossi and Peterka.

I also see Conroy wanting a top 4 dman if we trade Ras to play with Parekh. What is the cost to acquire that? Is there a vet that will sign for 1 or 2 years to give Conroy time to make a decision on a top 4 dman next year and give kids another year to develop.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Frost scored 46 3 seasons ago and paced at 29 points here. Lets see what he can do next year before committing a long term deal

Problem is we are assuming we have that choice. He is 1 year away from UFA. I'm ok to move on from him. I'm ok to walk away from Rossi too. But Conroy seems to want to have quality bodies in roles on the team while he evaluates prospects. He also has vets that will go soon too.

$5 mil for Frosts for 6 years when this team is building for 2 of those isn't bad. Backlund and Kadri will be gone in the next 3 for sure IMO. We don't have any centers that will push for top 6 in the system right now.

Rossi at $9mil or more and 18 out vs Frost at $5 mil for 6 years and keeping 18 is the better option for me. If Rossi can get signed for less than $8mil, his value on a better contract might be worth trading Frost at that point

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by traptor

No way im giving frost 5x6. He hasn't done anything to earn that.
His career high is 46 points and 19g. And he's slight. Hes a mediocre 3c realisticly right now.
I'd give Frost a show me deadline, like 3.5x2.


Also you can't even really compare frost and Rossi since they're completely different caliber of players. Rossi is 3 years younger and has already vastly outperformed anything frost has done.

At 6'0 195lbs Frost is far from slight.

Rossi's numbers went up this year mostly because of Ek's injury. 1st line duty and 1st PP when your top 2 players are injured are inflationary, also maybe Guerin didn't like the type of points Rossi got, Minnesota were on there way to missing the playoffs until Ek and Kaprizov came back

Personally I would tread on the careful side, there's a reason Minnesota doesn't want to pay him the money on having a 60pt season, they likely see him as a 40-50pt player.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

At 6'0 195lbs Frost is far from slight.

Rossi's numbers went up this year mostly because of Ek's injury. 1st line duty and 1st PP when your top 2 players are injured are inflationary, also maybe Guerin didn't like the type of points Rossi got, Minnesota were on there way to missing the playoffs until Ek and Kaprizov came back

Personally I would tread on the careful side, there's a reason Minnesota doesn't want to pay him the money on having a 60pt season, they likely see him as a 40-50pt player.

Rossi #1 linemate was Kaprizov and they played together at the start of the season. Ek is a great 2-way center, more of a checker. He will play away from Kap and match up against the other team's top lines.

Kap injury should have hurt Rossi, but he actually played well in his absence.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Rossi #1 linemate was Kaprizov and they played together at the start of the season. Ek is a great 2-way center, more of a checker. He will play away from Kap and match up against the other team's top lines.

Kap injury should have hurt Rossi, but he actually played well in his absence.

I’m definitely on board with Rossi, but his scoring fell off considerably when Kaprizov got injured (Jan 26).

https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/game...91/marco-rossi

I like his game and think he’s talented enough to be good in Calgary but the risk is there that he needs high end skill to succeed, which is why the Flames shouldn’t push too much in for him.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

At 6'0 195lbs Frost is far from slight.

Rossi's numbers went up this year mostly because of Ek's injury. 1st line duty and 1st PP when your top 2 players are injured are inflationary, also maybe Guerin didn't like the type of points Rossi got, Minnesota were on there way to missing the playoffs until Ek and Kaprizov came back

Personally I would tread on the careful side, there's a reason Minnesota doesn't want to pay him the money on having a 60pt season, they likely see him as a 40-50pt player.

I don't ever recall a team trying to get rid of a 23 year old C who scored 60 points.

Cant be because he is small

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I don't ever recall a team trying to get rid of a 23 year old C who scored 60 points.

Cant be because he is small

It's apparently that simple. They're worried he'll get pushed around too much come play-off time. Despite his entire game being in the trenches. Guerin is out to lunch imo.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It's apparently that simple. They're worried he'll get pushed around too much come play-off time. Despite his entire game being in the trenches. Guerin is out to lunch imo.

I agree Guerin is ready to move on but there will be enough interest in the player it won’t be a complete fire sale of a late first or a couple of 2nds to get it done.

[Blaster86]

It was never going to be just picks.


Pick, player, prospect. The Horvat.


It's just going to be less than anyone would expect a player like Rossi to get.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

I’m definitely on board with Rossi, but his scoring fell off considerably when Kaprizov got injured (Jan 26).

https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/game...91/marco-rossi

I like his game and think he’s talented enough to be good in Calgary but the risk is there that he needs high end skill to succeed, which is why the Flames shouldn’t push too much in for him.

So.. 14 points in last 31 games. Slowed down in the second half considerably.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Knut

So.. 14 points in last 31 games. Slowed down in the second half considerably.

Yeah. He went from around a 73 point pace over 82 games (.88 points per game) to a 37 point pace over 82 games (.45 points per game).

I'd say his scoring being cut in half is a considerable slow down.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Yeah. He went from around a 73 point pace over 82 games (.88 points per game) to a 37 point pace over 82 games (.45 points per game).

I'd say his scoring being cut in half is a considerable slow down.

That is why contract negotiations factor into this. Frost isn't putting up numbers either. If the Flames try and pay him based on his numbers last year, he will not sign. They will need to decide if he has more.

Same with Rossi. If they traded for him, I'm comfortable with less than $8M. For me, this will be low end 2nd line money very soon here.

Also, sometimes when you are building a team, who your top players are factors into who your secondary guys should be. Style of play and coaching as well.

Your #1 is McDavid, the rest of your team should be role players other than a few core guys that go with him. Defense and PK would be important to me.

Your #1 guy is Barkov. He takes care of the top players on the other team. A little scoring behind him makes him more valuable. Bennett and Marchand lines are scoring all the goals in the playoffs. Barkov and Reinhart are taking care of business in the d zone and chipping in.