Former NHL player Adam Johnson passes away after cut to neck

[btimbit]

Worth mentioning that I believe in the UK, there are a lot of rules about questioning a suspect without arresting them first. So this still doesn't necessarily mean there are charges incoming, just the next step in the process

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

The ‘play’ appeared an unnatural and reckless action. I don’t doubt the outcome wasn’t intended, but it did appear to be a manoeuvre to make some contact or to impede in a way that was not congruent with the rules and which was dangerous.

I don't want to watch it. Not normally bothered by gruesome stuff, but I just don't want to try to unsee it.

Is this true? I understood it to be kind of a quick play, guy got hit, and skate came up. How was it unnatural? Not doubting you.

Shocked the guy was arrested.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I don't want to watch it. Not normally bothered by gruesome stuff, but I just don't want to try to unsee it.

Is this true? I understood it to be kind of a quick play, guy got hit, and skate came up. How was it unnatural? Not doubting you.

Shocked the guy was arrested.

It looked like the guy wanted to kick him. Obviously not in the neck but there you go. I've seen other guys kick out in pileups.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I don't want to watch it. Not normally bothered by gruesome stuff, but I just don't want to try to unsee it.

Is this true? I understood it to be kind of a quick play, guy got hit, and skate came up. How was it unnatural? Not doubting you.

Shocked the guy was arrested.

If you want to answer these questions, just watch the clip. You don't see blood or anything like that, and if you didn't know the outcome, you wouldn't suspect the outcome from what appears to happen.

To me, the player who did the kick looks like he was going to hit one player and decides to try to take out two with one play. It's a weird, awkward looking play, and while it doesn't look like he intended to kick as high as he did...it DOES look like he tried to kick the player he ends up killing.

The whole thing just looks weird, and there are several possible interpetations. I think Manslaughter is the right charge here.

[PuckSlap]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I don't want to watch it. Not normally bothered by gruesome stuff, but I just don't want to try to unsee it.



Is this true? I understood it to be kind of a quick play, guy got hit, and skate came up. How was it unnatural? Not doubting you.



Shocked the guy was arrested.

I'll try to describe it.

The player was skating in and he went out of his way to push another player aside, so he could get leverage. He went out of his way to kick. It wasn't a mistake. The more I watch it, the more it looks intentional. The clip here isn't graphic. It only shows the point leading up to the kick and the kick itself. I promise

https://youtube.com/shorts/hz6bCJGbv...YVjr0ILIppeDbh

[Flamesfan05]

Intend really doesn’t matter for manslaughter

Was he reckless? Look like to me for a professional player.

If it’s a guy on a street that doesn’t know what he is doing then may be different

[Jethro Choicebro]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

The guy may be rightfully charged with manslaughter. But he’s a human, not a monster. He’s faced an onslaught of threats and racial attacks following this. Plus the whole dealing with the fact that his action took a life. The fans of his team showing some support is a normal human response. How does this not age well?

The same way Matt Cooke doesnt need a standing ovation everytime he throws an elbow.
Im not advocating threats or racial attacks or anything against him, but he made a dangerous play that had serious, albeit unfortunate, consequences. I dont think it needs to be celebrated.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

I'll try to describe it.

The player was skating in and he went out of his way to push another player aside, so he could get leverage. He went out of his way to kick. It wasn't a mistake. The more I watch it, the more it looks intentional. The clip here isn't graphic. It only shows the point leading up to the kick and the kick itself. I promise

https://youtube.com/shorts/hz6bCJGbv...YVjr0ILIppeDbh

I agree, he appears to intentionally lift his leg towards the player prior to contact. This wasn't a case of the body contact resulting in his leg going errant, which I could see happening in hockey accidentally, and having the same result.

I can't understand the objective of lifting your leg prior to contact. It is certainly reckless at best.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Jethro Choicebro

The same way Matt Cooke doesnt need a standing ovation everytime he throws an elbow.
Im not advocating threats or racial attacks or anything against him, but he made a dangerous play that had serious, albeit unfortunate, consequences. I dont think it needs to be celebrated.

He didn’t get a standing ovation for that act. That should be quite obvious.

[GreenLantern2814]

I’m not watching that video, but if you’re playing so out of control that missing an open ice hit causes your skates to Come up and get the dude’s neck on the way by and kill him, you deserve to go to jail.

[AustinL_NHL]

Yea, Petgrave getting a standing O from the arena was a pretty stupid, disgusting act by the fans, showing support for the guy who intentionally stuck his skate out (but unintentionally made contact with an area he didn't mean to).

I don't care if Petgrave was the biggest saint in the world before the incident (certainly wasn't). Didn't deserve the racial attacks and threats, but that certainly doesn't justify getting a standing O for a show of support (basically a slap in the face of Adam's family, who all felt the play was unnatural).

Hope they all feel a little shame and embarrassment after this announcement. At least it'll give Petgrave a little lasting memory while in prison (if he ends up being charged/sentenced)

Stupid, stupid, stupid, reckless play

[devo22]

now that I finally watched the video, I fully support this. This wasn't some kind of freak accident, it was an unbelievably reckless play and manslaughter is the correct call IMO.

[VilleN]

Just watched it. WTF was this guy doing? At best it looks like he is trying to kick the guy in the chest. It should go without saying, but you shouldn't try and kick someone when you have blades on your feet... no doubt it was the force of the kick that led to this being fatal. Normally in hockey the rare event of a blade hitting the jugular is usually just a nick, or a slice... this was a kick with force. Completely idiotic and reckless. Manslaughter is the right call here.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I don't want to watch it. Not normally bothered by gruesome stuff, but I just don't want to try to unsee it.

Is this true? I understood it to be kind of a quick play, guy got hit, and skate came up. How was it unnatural? Not doubting you.

Shocked the guy was arrested.

I see a number of people have already responded. It seemed unnatural to me in that how the play developed, it does not seem like how Petgrave’s body - in particular legs could have gone the way they did as an organic flowing move. There seems to be intent to impede, but not hurt, however, the outcome of the action clearly went horrifically and tragically beyond what Petgrave may have intended.

What also needs to be considered is the duty of care Petgrave - or any other player owes to their colleagues and opponents. He is a professional hockey player and it would appear his manoeuvre was reckless. If it was indeed reckless, the outcome unfortunately means that manslaughter does need to be considered.

I’m not saying this is manslaughter - but it could be and should be considered because if he intentionally made that inherently dangerous play - outside the rules of the game - he does at least have a case to answer.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Intend really doesn’t matter for manslaughter

Was he reckless? Look like to me for a professional player.

If it’s a guy on a street that doesn’t know what he is doing then may be different

In Canada intent still matters for manslaughter, insofar as you have to intend to do an illegal act. It's not murder unless you intend to kill, however (you have to be reckless as to the result).

So if I punch someone in a non-consensual fight and I accidentally kill them I intended an illegal act (assault) and was reckless as to the damage it causes.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In Canada intent still matters for manslaughter, insofar as you have to intend to do an illegal act. It's not murder unless you intend to kill, however (you have to be reckless as to the result).

So if I punch someone in a non-consensual fight and I accidentally kill them I intended an illegal act (assault) and was reckless as to the damage it causes.

Any violent contact, a kick for instance, would be an assault in both the UK and Canada, except possibly in a martial arts contest where kicking was a specific part of the sport, a kick in a boxing match would be an assault, there is no way an intentional kick would be considered a consensual act in a hockey game either here or in the UK, the guy seems a lock for a manslaughter conviction

[Ashasx]

I really hate that alt right media groups and personalities have grabbed a hold of this because it's difficult to have a nuanced position that isn't black or white.

I don't know if Petgrave should be held criminally responsible, and I don't think he will be, but I don't feel like this was a hockey play.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I really hate that alt right media groups and personalities have grabbed a hold of this because it's difficult to have a nuanced position that isn't black or white.

I don't know if Petgrave should be held criminally responsible, and I don't think he will be, but I don't feel like this was a hockey play.

my guess is he will be charged, no one in the UK cares about hockey much, this is little different in the mind of the public there than a dude getting killed in a bar fight, in Canada there would be a hand wringing debate about hockeys place in the countries history and culture, the role of contact within hockey etc etc, there won't be any of that in the UK it will just be seen as some thug wearing a set of knives kicked a guy and killed him

[midniteowl]

RIP condolences to his family and friends.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

I'll try to describe it.

The player was skating in and he went out of his way to push another player aside, so he could get leverage. He went out of his way to kick. It wasn't a mistake. The more I watch it, the more it looks intentional. The clip here isn't graphic. It only shows the point leading up to the kick and the kick itself. I promise

https://youtube.com/shorts/hz6bCJGbv...YVjr0ILIppeDbh

It looks a lot more damning in this angle than the one I saw before. Still not sure I'd draw the criminal line there for a full-speed open ice incident compared to the many more deliberate actions we've seen over the years, but of course the outcome here is very different.