How much damage did Covid do?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I find it absolutely horrifying that you're some sort of elected official with decision making capacity.

Haha, well I'm not? But I didn't think anything I said there was particularly controversial.

[Doctorfever]

The damage covid has done might basically divide a generation.

Myself, I was lucky (kinda). I never missed one day of work, however I didn’t see my family for over 3 weeks. It was my call not to see them, so I get why someone wouldn’t feel sorry for me, but it was a long, long time for us all.

I never lost somebody close to me to covid. So, that in itself makes everything else seem so small.

Lots of inconveniences, like everyone, so meh on that.

There are a lot of people I know who haven’t spoken to each other since covid. That is one of the crappy things. Friendships lost (hopefully not forever), but no matter what they will probably never be the same.

The divide between people of different political stripes is larger than it has ever been. I am very fortunate to have not lost any friends over this myself, but believe it’s best my close friends and I don’t rehash the whole covid thing (although we do from time to time, but not hard feelings, generally).

I do think that some people on both sides of the argument are still very passionate about it, and rightfully so I guess. After all, we aren’t that far removed from it. All you have to do is read the Alberta politics thread to see that.

I hope I am wrong, but I think that there are people who will go the rest of their lives without talking to certain people or entertaining a discussion with someone with a different perspective than their own.

The loved ones lost are the most tragic thing. The friendships lost are something that will be lost for probably a lifetime.

[PeteMoss]

There should be a review of actions taken during covid and review what worked/what didn't - and the cost/benefit of these actions.

A lot of people take 'their' side on an issue like closing schools and don't consider both sides. The pro-closing school people say it saved lives and it did - but how many lives. The anti-closing school people say it hurt kids and it did - but how much did it cost kids. Once you have at least a reasonable estimate for both sides - you can use that to decide how to react if this happens again. But you need to have both the costs and benefits identified to make that decision.

You'd also hope the government will permanently restrict our rights people if we allow mask mandates or close business people would reassess their priors so we don't have to have that argument again - but that's wishful thinking.

[Fuzz]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1686485910643216385


Great, now we can't even use them for spare parts. We've lost organs to save lives, from selfish POS's who's only concern is themselves, even after they are dead. Totally indefensible.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Nobody claimed there was zero spread through schools. The question is if the reduction in infection from closing in-person schooling was worth the long-term learning loss.

People shouldn’t look to folk wisdom and personal experience with colds and flus to inform behaviour around covid. Different viruses behave differently. Pre-omicron, children contracted and spread covid at significantly lower rates than adults. This was well-documented by virologists. Remember - trust the experts.

Post-omicron, everyone was spreading covid at dramatically higher rates than earlier variants. That’s when we saw widespread infection through schools, and pretty much everywhere else. At that point there was little point in social distancing (my dad caught covid twice in a nursing home that had extremely stringent social distancing and quarantine measures), only in getting the vaccine to reduce the strain on the health care system by reducing the severity of infections.

Seems pretty short sighted to think we can social distance ourselves away from an extremely infectious airborne virus, and to think it is sensible to use that as a tactic to control the virus.

But I guess that is why public health in many areas still claimed surface infection was actually a risk, so they could continue mandating their completely braindead restrictions.

Like I said earlier,
No issue with 20k people in an arena.
Big problem with more than 15 people in restaurant.
Didn't give a #### about care homes and people at risk.
Made a big deal about gathering outside.

Lots of examples like that.

[Bonded]

The worst fallout from Covid outside of the death tolls is that it really cemented and deepened the political divide.

[Matata]

Maybe the next time there is a pandemic, we can find a solution that doesn't crush the middle and lower classes while elevating the super-rich? It's crazy how every time there was any confusion or ambiguitiy on the best way to respond, the authorities always went the way that massively enriched the billionaire class.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-relea...ple-could-fall

Government trust should be at an all time low, we were massively and deliberately sold out by our politicians. They'd do it all over again if they got another opportunity.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Matata

Maybe the next time there is a pandemic, we can find a solution that doesn't crush the middle and lower classes while elevating the super-rich? It's crazy how every time there was any confusion or ambiguitiy on the best way to respond, the authorities always went the way that massively enriched the billionaire class.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-relea...ple-could-fall

Government trust should be at an all time low, we were massively and deliberately sold out by our politicians. They'd do it all over again if they got another opportunity.

This is a feature of capitalism, not pandemics.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Matata

Maybe the next time there is a pandemic, we can find a solution that doesn't crush the middle and lower classes while elevating the super-rich? It's crazy how every time there was any confusion or ambiguitiy on the best way to respond, the authorities always went the way that massively enriched the billionaire class.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-relea...ple-could-fall

Government trust should be at an all time low, we were massively and deliberately sold out by our politicians. They'd do it all over again if they got another opportunity.

So business as usual then

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://twitter.com/user/status/1686485910643216385


Great, now we can't even use them for spare parts. We've lost organs to save lives, from selfish POS's who's only concern is themselves, even after they are dead. Totally indefensible.

Let’s be honest, do you think that those people were ever going to be organ donors in the first place? I have encountered some of them and it is interesting to see the a la carte belief in medicine that they have. I want a blood transfusion but with unvaccinated blood

For anyone to be eligible for an organ transplant they need a standard series of vaccinations because their body is put on immune suppressant medications for the rest of their lives.

[MoneyGuy]

“Sentenced to death?” What a jackass.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Let’s be honest, do you think that those people were ever going to be organ donors in the first place? I have encountered some of them and it is interesting to see the a la carte belief in medicine that they have. I want a blood transfusion but with unvaccinated blood

For anyone to be eligible for an organ transplant they need a standard series of vaccinations because their body is put on immune suppressant medications for the rest of their lives.

Ya, and you also basically become a ward of the program. They tell you to do something, you do it. Part of the review processing is confirming a potential recipient can follow the strictness of the program, and if they see that you are not willing, you may not qualify. This is all because there are limited organs, and they don't want them going to someone who won't respect the donor enough to follow instructions, so it is better to give it to someone who is willing to basically take orders. It's a trade off, but obviously worth it to live.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

There should be a review of actions taken during covid and review what worked/what didn't - and the cost/benefit of these actions.

A lot of people take 'their' side on an issue like closing schools and don't consider both sides. The pro-closing school people say it saved lives and it did - but how many lives. The anti-closing school people say it hurt kids and it did - but how much did it cost kids. Once you have at least a reasonable estimate for both sides - you can use that to decide how to react if this happens again. But you need to have both the costs and benefits identified to make that decision.

You'd also hope the government will permanently restrict our rights people if we allow mask mandates or close business people would reassess their priors so we don't have to have that argument again - but that's wishful thinking.

While there is no question that a thorough review should be done with intention of identifying actions that are taken now to prevent as many preventable issues as possible, I don’t know if a review could capture what you’re asking it to capture.

How many lives did school closures save? Well, schools were either closed or they weren’t. It was a variable without a control to test it against. There were also countless other changing variables at any given time.

More recent studies have shown that kids were the most common cause of spread in a household despite most infections of children being asymptomatic (which led to symptomatic infections in adults) and that schools were one of if not the most significant sources of exposure.

Knowing that allows us to make a determination on whether schools should be closed based on other variables at play. How deadly is the virus? How easily is it spread? That alone can tell us whether closing schools is necessary. We don’t close schools for the flu, but if something deadlier and just as transmissible as COVID comes up? Absolutely schools need to be one of the first things to close.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The worst fallout from Covid outside of the death tolls is that it really cemented and deepened the political divide.

Covid forced people online and it forced people to be more aware of online communities. What happened is people are now less aware of IRL community.

It felt to me that before you didn't care that you disagreed with someone about politics they were your mechanic and a good one so you still trusted and respected one another.

Now it feels like people place more value on ideology than other tangible elements of humanity. Like general kindness and hard work. Instead they seek this sort of ideological purity based on online community.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Azure

Seems pretty short sighted to think we can social distance ourselves away from an extremely infectious airborne virus, and to think it is sensible to use that as a tactic to control the virus.

But I guess that is why public health in many areas still claimed surface infection was actually a risk, so they could continue mandating their completely braindead restrictions.

Like I said earlier,
No issue with 20k people in an arena.
Big problem with more than 15 people in restaurant.
Didn't give a #### about care homes and people at risk.
Made a big deal about gathering outside.

Lots of examples like that.

It got to a point where rules were coming into place just to show that the politicians were doing something. They would purposely put rules in that were as visible as possible, even though these rules may not have substantially reduced spread.

When it painfully became obvious that we were all getting exposed to Covid at some point and the vaccines were not going to prevent that, some people still wanted to believe that a zero covid policy was possible. This resulted in a lot of extra economic and social damage that didn't need to occur.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by blankall

It got to a point where rules were coming into place just to show that the politicians were doing something. They would purposely put rules in that were as visible as possible, even though these rules may not have substantially reduced spread.

When it painfully became obvious that we were all getting exposed to Covid at some point and the vaccines were not going to prevent that, some people still wanted to believe that a zero covid policy was possible. This resulted in a lot of extra economic and social damage that didn't need to occur.

Pretty much.

What amazes me is that it was obvious to everyone who got vaccinated early on saw that the vaccines were not stopping infection, but rather serious illness.

But we had a lot of public health authorities and bigshots from Pfizer telling everyone if you got vaccinated you wouldn't get COVID.

So things didn't line up from the start.

Add in a bunch of other stupidity, and it equalled untold societal and economic damage. But of course, some people profited from it all.

The Gates Foundation was happy to play up the importance of everyone get vaccinated, made their hundreds of millions, and then Bill goes around questioning the efficiency of the vaccines. Kinda hilarious. But of course predictable. Almost makes you wonder if all those scumbags had inside information on it all and that is why they wouldn't open up the patents.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Matata

Maybe the next time there is a pandemic, we can find a solution that doesn't crush the middle and lower classes while elevating the super-rich? It's crazy how every time there was any confusion or ambiguitiy on the best way to respond, the authorities always went the way that massively enriched the billionaire class.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-relea...ple-could-fall

Government trust should be at an all time low, we were massively and deliberately sold out by our politicians. They'd do it all over again if they got another opportunity.

In North America this is very false. With the government handouts - lots of poor folk were better of during the pandemic then they had been in ages and are now.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Covid forced people online and it forced people to be more aware of online communities. What happened is people are now less aware of IRL community.

It felt to me that before you didn't care that you disagreed with someone about politics they were your mechanic and a good one so you still trusted and respected one another.

Now it feels like people place more value on ideology than other tangible elements of humanity. Like general kindness and hard work. Instead they seek this sort of ideological purity based on online community.

Don't particularly think covid was a strong driving force on political divide (obviously it became divided because everything does). That started way before Covid and most sane people on either side have moved on. Obama/Trudeau broke a few brains but really it was Trump that drove to the super divide. Lots of people can't understand why anyone would vote/support for a person like him and it drove a huge divide.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

In North America this is very false. With the government handouts - lots of poor folk were better of during the pandemic then they had been in ages and are now.

Temporarily anyways. Then the government handouts stopped, but the inflation, particularly housing and food costs set in, putting them in the worst situation they've been in many decades. The government randomly giving money out like that was a disaster. People were literally throwing away money on NFTs....made up computer drawings.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by blankall

Temporarily anyways. Then the government handouts stopped, but the inflation, particularly housing and food costs set in, putting them in the worst situation they've been in many decades. The government randomly giving money out like that was a disaster. People were literally throwing away money on NFTs....made up computer drawings.

It should have been more targeted for sure. The US they were just giving everyone money. In Canada - I didn't get any money.