[Rumour] Toffoli looking for a trade out of Calgary

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s unique to have 7 guys, many of which are big contributors or have been here a while, become UFA in the same year.

Nobody is selling it as a coincidence. Just that there are realistic explanations that don’t border on the melodramatic.

There was no shortage of people here saying “trade everyone” and “only bring back x y and x on sweetheart deals” and now that seems to be the case, and suddenly the sky is falling? I don’t know, doesn’t track to me.

“Only sign these guys to cheap deals, if they don’t take them, trade them. We can’t pay any more 30+ guys long term.”

“They won’t sign.”

“Omg there must be something wrong with us.”

Sure, 7 UFAs is uncommon.

But at least 3 trade requests from that group (that we know of) IS an indicator that there's something seriously wrong that needs to be looked at harder.

I don't think that's a sky is falling mentality, or being melodramatic. That's being a realist that there are market signals and circumstances around this team/ownership group that is causing players to question their long term future here, short of us paying too much money/term to keep them.

[868904]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s unique to have 7 guys, many of which are big contributors or have been here a while, become UFA in the same year.

Nobody is selling it as a coincidence. Just that there are realistic explanations that don’t border on the melodramatic.

There was no shortage of people here saying “trade everyone” and “only bring back x y and x on sweetheart deals” and now that seems to be the case, and suddenly the sky is falling? I don’t know, doesn’t track to me.

“Only sign these guys to cheap deals, if they don’t take them, trade them. We can’t pay any more 30+ guys long term.”

“They won’t sign.”

“Omg there must be something wrong with us.”

Players want to win. The ONLY reason players are interested in going to Edmonton is because of McDavid. Your best player is the major selling point in the organization. The arena, the culture, the City, the coach, that's all minor stuff.

If your best player is legit and can realistically lead your team to the Stanley Cup, then players will have an interest in playing for you.

The Flames "best" player, the guy who they have hitched their wagon to for 8 years and $10.5 million AAV, scored 55 points last year. That is a terrible selling point. It doesn't matter how "nice a guy" Huberdeau is. Players want to win and if I was a player, I don't see that the Flames have the horses.

[DiNaMo]

I get it this is our team but there's definitely some homer takes going on in this thread. Frankly if this was happening in Edmonton we'd be on E=NG 15 by now laughing at them.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Sure, 7 UFAs is uncommon.

But at least 3 trade requests from that group (that we know of) IS an indicator that there's something seriously wrong that needs to be looked at harder.

I don't think that's a sky is falling mentality, or being melodramatic. That's being a realist that there are market signals and circumstances around this team/ownership group that is causing players to question their long term future here, short of us paying too much money/term to keep them.

Is it a trade request? Or is it more like they don't want to commit to an extension, and they'd be open to be traded if the Flames weren't willing to let players play out the contract? All the leverage is on the players side. There's advantages to waiting it out from a cap perspective as well. A higher cap means more potential money.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Is it a trade request? Or is it more like they don't want to commit to an extension, and they'd be open to be traded if the Flames weren't willing to let players play out the contract?

I'm extending back to last offseason. Backlund, Toffoli, Tkachuk have all made trade requests. So 3 of the 8.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Just more proof that you can't believe anything players say on garbage bag interview day.

I disagree.

Since then the GM stepped down and the coach has been fired ... that's a huge change to their decision.

Lindholm and Backlund were pretty non-committal and now they've confirmed that.

And I think the biggest thing is others going. I would imagine Toffoli not saying anything until it started to look like all of Lindholm, Hanifin and Backlund are leaving speaks volumes.

Situation has changed since late April.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s unique to have 7 guys, many of which are big contributors or have been here a while, become UFA in the same year.

Nobody is selling it as a coincidence. Just that there are realistic explanations that don’t border on the melodramatic.

There was no shortage of people here saying “trade everyone” and “only bring back x y and x on sweetheart deals” and now that seems to be the case, and suddenly the sky is falling? I don’t know, doesn’t track to me.

“Only sign these guys to cheap deals, if they don’t take them, trade them. We can’t pay any more 30+ guys long term.”

“They won’t sign.”

“Omg there must be something wrong with us.”

I agree ... massive over reaction.

It's a recipe ...

When you get 7 players heading for UFA status a year before we are supposed to see a cap bump and in the first few weeks where a new GM states asset management is the word ... this is going to happen.

Calgary will likely always be in that group of 6-8 least desirable markets, and that's part of the problem for sure. But this is more about timing, and one guy's decision is quickly pushing other guys to do the same.

The sky isn't falling ... the Flames are potentially setting up for a very well timed asset reclamation project and rebuild.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DiNaMo

I get it this is our team but there's definitely some homer takes going on in this thread. Frankly if this was happening in Edmonton we'd be on E=NG 15 by now laughing at them.

Man I hate the word homer.

I don't think you'll see too many posts happy with the forced futures rebuild not saying they were worried about resigning all these players and locking in an old team.

Do some research and look for inconsistency before pointing fingers.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Man I hate the word homer.

I don't think you'll see too many posts happy with the forced futures rebuild not saying they were worried about resigning all these players and locking in an old team.

Do some research and look for inconsistency before pointing fingers.

Our franchise doesn't look great right now.
- 2 star players leave last year
- GM decides to move on
- Fire coach before he even starts his new 2 year deal (we would have roasted Edmonton or Vancouver for this)
- 4 of our top players decide to not re-sign when deals are up

In 3 years we'll be an up and coming team and all will be forgotten but right now we look like Arizona north.

[SuperMatt18]

Columbus had the same thing TBH, it happens if players hit UFA and don't think you're a true contender.

Columbus won against Tampa, and then Panarin, Bobrovsky, and Duchene all walked as UFA. Then Dubois and Jones both asked for trades within the next 18 months.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Columbus had the same thing TBH, it happens if players hit UFA and don't think you're a true contender.

Columbus won against Tampa, and then Panarin, Bobrovsky, and Duchene all walked as UFA. Dubois and Jones both asked for trades within the next 18 months.

Who is going to be our Johnny coming home to Calgary to be close to family in Ontario?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Who is going to be our Johnny coming home to Calgary to be close to family in Ontario?

Adin Hill

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Columbus had the same thing TBH, it happens if players hit UFA and don't think you're a true contender.

Columbus won against Tampa, and then Panarin, Bobrovsky, and Duchene all walked as UFA. Then Dubois and Jones both asked for trades within the next 18 months.

Under any circumstance, I was on trade Toffoli team regardless. He's not someone that should be in your core, he's someone you compliment your core with to push you over the edge. That's why we brought him in.

He's going to be priced out of the market for him to be that IMO regardless, so trading him now after last season, regardless of what he wants / wanted should have always been the plan IMO.

And totally agree on your true contender point. I think people are getting really wrapped up on this exit from Calgary thing and what it means. Rightfully so btw given the last year. BUT, I think it has more to do with what you said. Tre built this team, and especially given the two key turn overs last year (which I don't think were running away from Calgary), to win in the window with these contracts on the books. Those contracts are all expiring now, and the players themselves are looking at where can they go to win.

Understandably, confidence in winning quickly in Calgary, is low. For Backs and Tof, if winning is a priority, that should make Calgary non-starters for them, they are too old to "wait" for us to potentially come through the next couple of years. For Lindy and Hanafin, it's probably more of, a do I want the first few years of my longer contract to potentially be on a non contender and assume one will build around me later, or do I want to try and get both, win now, and potentially later.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Under any circumstance, I was on trade Toffoli team regardless. He's not someone that should be in your core, he's someone you compliment your core with to push you over the edge. That's why we brought him in.

He's going to be priced out of the market for him to be that IMO regardless, so trading him now after last season, regardless of what he wants / wanted should have always been the plan IMO.

And totally agree on your true contender point. I think people are getting really wrapped up on this exit from Calgary thing and what it means. Rightfully so btw given the last year. BUT, I think it has more to do with what you said. Tre built this team, and especially given the two key turn overs last year (which I don't think were running away from Calgary), to win in the window with these contracts on the books. Those contracts are all expiring now, and the players themselves are looking at where can they go to win.

Understandably, confidence in winning quickly in Calgary, is low. For Backs and Tof, if winning is a priority, that should make Calgary non-starters for them, they are too old to "wait" for us to potentially come through the next couple of years. For Lindy and Hanafin, it's probably more of, a do I want the first few years of my longer contract to potentially be on a non contender and assume one will build around me later, or do I want to try and get both, win now, and potentially later.

And it's not just "wanting to stay in Calgary"

It's extending a year before you are eligible, coming off what was a down season production wise for everyone except Toffoli, and giving up your UFA status.

Honestly I don't think it has much to do with the actual city of Calgary at all. It has to do with the organization, the gong show this last year has been with Sutter/Treliving, the current likelihood of contending for a cup here, and what they are asking of the players in terms of signing one year out.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

Our franchise doesn't look great right now.
- 2 star players leave last year
- GM decides to move on
- Fire coach before he even starts his new 2 year deal (we would have roasted Edmonton or Vancouver for this)
- 4 of our top players decide to not re-sign when deals are up

In 3 years we'll be an up and coming team and all will be forgotten but right now we look like Arizona north.

Mmm, ya I get your first point.

And I know much of this in on Markstrom, but just remember last year's group with those 4 top players could not string more than two wins together from November onwards.

[The Yen Man]

If the reports are true that Flames aren't willing to offer more term for Toffoli, then it's pretty reasonable for him to want to explore his options elsewhere. If I were him, I'd be looking in to cash in on term as well, especially coming off the season he had.

Trading him is probably the best thing for the Flames though, so I think it makes sense for both sides.

[FlamingHomer]

He didn't exactly light it up at the World's. I was predicting a down season for him this year based on that. Only because Mangiapane had a great season after an excellent showing at the World's.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Mmm, ya I get your first point.

And I know much of this in on Markstrom, but just remember last year's group with those 4 top players could not string more than two wins together from November onwards.

Agreed but they were still 4 of our best players.
I'm a little concerned that if we do end up trading them all for futures it could be bad, I think the common belief is whomever gets the best player in the trade, wins the trade.
we might lose 3 of these 4 trades if they happen, I hope we win most but unlikely we win all four. (if they happen)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

Agreed but they were still 4 of our best players.
I'm a little concerned that if we do end up trading them all for futures it could be bad, I think the common belief is whomever gets the best player in the trade, wins the trade.
we might lose 3 of these 4 trades if they happen, I hope we win most but unlikely we win all four. (if they happen)

I think the best player in a trade thing harkens back to a hockey trade time, not a salary cap influenced rental or limited term player for futures environment.

You just need to make the picks count or get the right prospect included, and then both teams can win (if the acquiring team goes on a run)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I agree ... massive over reaction.

It's a recipe ...

When you get 7 players heading for UFA status a year before we are supposed to see a cap bump and in the first few weeks where a new GM states asset management is the word ... this is going to happen.

Calgary will likely always be in that group of 6-8 least desirable markets, and that's part of the problem for sure. But this is more about timing, and one guy's decision is quickly pushing other guys to do the same.

The sky isn't falling ... the Flames are potentially setting up for a very well timed asset reclamation project and rebuild.

And on top of that, it sounds like both Backlund and Toffoli are hung up on term. Guys want to be here longer than the team is willing to keep them here, so they ask for a trade, and people say, “Oh, must be a problem with the team, why doesn’t anybody want to stay?”

It’s just a weird narrative that sounds juicy but doesn’t seem to have any legs at all.